Does new .380 ammo have the same stopping power as a .38 special?

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Does new .380 ammo have the same stopping power as a .38 special?

Post by Beancounter on Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:51 pm

I had a gun shop guy tell me that the new .380 ammo has just as much stopping power as a +p 38 special. He showed me a chart from "Handgun Stopping Power" by Marshall and Sanow. This chart did show Corbon and Glasser rounds a little better than .38's. What do ha'll think. I think he was just trying to sell a .380.

Here is something I found on the web:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm

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Re: Does new .380 ammo have the same stopping power as a .38 special?

Post by pinetor on Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:07 pm

Interesting chart. I noted that all the .380 were from a 3.6" SIG, while some the .38 were from 2" S&W. If his point is that a long barreled .380 is as potent as a short barreled target load .38... meh I give it to him. Whats the point?

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Re: Does new .380 ammo have the same stopping power as a .38 special?

Post by Leopardcurdog on Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:19 pm

Stopping power and handguns, IMHO, should never be used in the same sentence. Charts, gel tests, shop talk, and such are fun to play around with, but there is no way to know what a bullet is going to do, or how the human body is going to react to it.

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Re: Does new .380 ammo have the same stopping power as a .38 special?

Post by p moore on Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:22 pm

I know Hornady Critical Defence is a good .380 round. But I would call it more a deterrant, than a stopper. Shot placement would be the key.

Paul

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Re: Does new .380 ammo have the same stopping power as a .38 special?

Post by jakeg823 on Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:48 pm

If you want "stopping power" CC a 12ga

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Re: Does new .380 ammo have the same stopping power as a .38 special?

Post by Beancounter on Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:07 pm

Pinetor, I didn't notice the barrel lengths, your right. I guess the object of this post is deciding what caliber would be the most practical. concealable and effective. I have the idea of simplifying my life. I'm going to limit myself to just a couple handguns. One gun for extreme concealment and one gun that is fairly full sized but can be concealed carried. I still live in Jackson(for now) and as we all know this town is going down hill fast. But more importantly, what has happened here is happening all over this country. Fifteen years ago I didn't own any weapons. Today, I wouldn't dream of mowing my lawn or going to the store with out a handgun. When I graduate from college I will not be living in a s**thole like Jackson again, but where ever I move to, will have similar problems to one degree or another. Welcome to the new world order.

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Re: Does new .380 ammo have the same stopping power as a .38 special?

Post by JMS39339 on Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:34 pm

Beancounter wrote:Pinetor, I didn't notice the barrel lengths, your right. I guess the object of this post is deciding what caliber would be the most practical. concealable and effective. I have the idea of simplifying my life. I'm going to limit myself to just a couple handguns. One gun for extreme concealment and one gun that is fairly full sized but can be concealed carried. I still live in Jackson(for now) and as we all know this town is going down hill fast. But more importantly, what has happened here is happening all over this country. Fifteen years ago I didn't own any weapons. Today, I wouldn't dream of mowing my lawn or going to the store with out a handgun. When I graduate from college I will not be living in a s**thole like Jackson again, but where ever I move to, will have similar problems to one degree or another. Welcome to the new world order.

This is one of the most debated topics in regard to concealed carry and really boils down to the individual. You have to assess your ability to carry based on your required dress code, your work, etc and unfortunately (at least for me), sometimes you may have to carry less gun in order to be able to carry at all but that is better than having nothing. It's also most likely that those variables will change several times in your life. I have found it very difficult to limit myself to only one or two guns and be totally satisfied with my options. 2 cents BTW, due to the way I have to dress for work, I find myself pocket carrying a Ruger LCP quite often and I feel very comfortable with it in regard to my self defense. I don't want to end up in an all out firefight with just it, but for me, concealed carry is primarily about my self defense.

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Re: Does new .380 ammo have the same stopping power as a .38 special?

Post by Hrdnox on Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:57 pm

I had an experience the other day that makes me wonder if .380 is a viable round at all. Won't go into details, but I had a ND in my mobile home last weekend. The bullet went into a sheetrock wall and into a 2 by that was behind it. This was an American Eagle FMJ, for what that's worth. I can feel the bullet with a screwdriver and it would appear that it only penetrated about an inch into the 2 by. Now we all know mobile homes aren't made of much, but it was plenty enough to stop that bullet short. I'm thinking a .380 from a mouse gun might hit just about as hard as a sharp rap from a billy club to the head. Will it be enough to stop a man? Possibly, but I'm fairly certain it might fall well short of killing him without an awful precise shot. Can't say that's necessarily a bad thing, but I'm not sure it's good, either. I think it's better than nothing, but might not be optimal when TSHTF. It's even got me wondering about 9mm, as well. I wouldn't want to be hit with either, but I think my chances of living through it might be better than I imagined. Don't know what to think about the .38 round. A few years ago, it was thought to be an inferior round, but the newer +P loads feel like they pack quite a punch. I try to increase my odds by loading +P rounds as much as I can in all my guns, because there is definitely a difference in feel on all of them.

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Re: Does new .380 ammo have the same stopping power as a .38 special?

Post by sidroski on Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:07 pm

p moore wrote:I know Hornady Critical Defence is a good .380 round. But I would call it more a deterrant, than a stopper. Shot placement would be the key.

Paul
They had a portion of "The Best Defense" and the guy was talking about .380. Said he carried one but really counted on shot placement and firing 3-4 rounds at an attacker into those critical areas. Even though he said he carried one as a primary or BU, you could see he had reservations.

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Re: Does new .380 ammo have the same stopping power as a .38 special?

Post by JMS39339 on Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:12 pm

Hrdnox wrote:I had an experience the other day that makes me wonder if .380 is a viable round at all. Won't go into details, but I had a ND in my mobile home last weekend. The bullet went into a sheetrock wall and into a 2 by that was behind it. This was an American Eagle FMJ, for what that's worth. I can feel the bullet with a screwdriver and it would appear that it only penetrated about an inch into the 2 by. Now we all know mobile homes aren't made of much, but it was plenty enough to stop that bullet short. I'm thinking a .380 from a mouse gun might hit just about as hard as a sharp rap from a billy club to the head. Will it be enough to stop a man? Possibly, but I'm fairly certain it might fall well short of killing him without an awful precise shot. Can't say that's necessarily a bad thing, but I'm not sure it's good, either. I think it's better than nothing, but might not be optimal when TSHTF. It's even got me wondering about 9mm, as well. I wouldn't want to be hit with either, but I think my chances of living through it might be better than I imagined. Don't know what to think about the .38 round. A few years ago, it was thought to be an inferior round, but the newer +P loads feel like they pack quite a punch. I try to increase my odds by loading +P rounds as much as I can in all my guns, because there is definitely a difference in feel on all of them.

That's why I'm going to make sure I give him at least three or four chances to ask me to stop shooting him with them. lol I would certainly agree that it's not the best round and that's why shot placement is so crucial and practice drills are an absolute requirement IMO.

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Re: Does new .380 ammo have the same stopping power as a .38 special?

Post by shoeshooter on Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:35 pm

Hrdnox, you fire a few +P in that new J-Frame and you'll know it! Not sure I'd want a steady diet of them on my gun or my hand. But practice with standard, carry +P.

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Re: Does new .380 ammo have the same stopping power as a .38 special?

Post by pinetor on Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:38 pm

JMS pretty much summed it up. I am pretty much old school myself, and would only carry a revolver for SD. My wife has a revolver with 4" and .38+p. jacketed softpoints. Whether one round will kill a man or not, its certainly gonna take the fight of them pretty dern quick.

I shoot .38 target loads all the time, (158gr DEWC), but thats not what I would use for SD. Both our revolvers are .357, so for me, I can pop 6 of those in and no-one wants to be hit with that. Point being: I guess you have to start somewhere ( caliber) but that is only a very small part of the equation.

It is a sorry state of affairs( Jackson specifically) and saddens me more and more. I can certainly understand the need for SD, and I appreciate the desire for minimizing your personal armory ( I am the same way). If the simple question was: is a small .380 semi auto equal to a small .38 revo, then for most intensive purposes the answer is closer to yes then no. But they are two very different animals, each with thier own pluses and minuses. Each side is quick to point out their perceived better qualities. I wish you good hunting for your SD gun.

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Re: Does new .380 ammo have the same stopping power as a .38 special?

Post by TomBomb on Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:15 am

After 18 rounds to the midsection, neck, and face, we'll check the SOB's pulse and see if it killt him....

I carry my Sig 238 daily iwb...with 2 extra mags...and have no reservations about it....

Of course, I think it shoots much better than most other 380's - so shot placement is easier with a more manageable mouse Smile

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Re: Does new .380 ammo have the same stopping power as a .38 special?

Post by miker84 on Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:09 am

I suppose almost any concealable handgun is a compromise over a shotgun or carbine when it comes to raw stopping power. If you don't carry your handgun and leave it in the safe, then it doesn't matter what caliber it is.

I might want to carry 1911 or P220, but my attire/destination that day may not allow it, so I grab the 380 or the 38 snubbie.

When I was in the tractor business, people with 1.2 acres wanted to buy a 150hp tractor with a 15' batwing Bush-Hog because it cut the widest path and therefore they could get finished quicker. The same folks would turn their nose up at a 25hp tractor with 5' cutter.

Its all about the practical application.

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Re: Does new .380 ammo have the same stopping power as a .38 special?

Post by smoffett on Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:57 pm

Have you considered 32 H&R mag or 327 Federal as options for your SD gun? Should give you better penetration than 380 or 38 special with less recoil.

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Re: Does new .380 ammo have the same stopping power as a .38 special?

Post by TomBomb on Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:34 pm

The advantage to the auto frame is.....the auto frame size (width)... 7 rounds of 380 is more concealable and comfortable against the body than the 38 sp....which I carry occasionally, and prior to buying the SIG.... So I think the same argument applies for the 327 or any other revolver frame... they all gots cylinders.

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Re: Does new .380 ammo have the same stopping power as a .38 special?

Post by Beancounter on Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:29 pm

If for no other reason, you folks make one hell of a debating team. Very intelligent and well thought out posts! Well done! Wish our state had some politicians with the same intelligence and passion.
There is one other thing to add to this post. That is due to modern medical treatment over 80% of all gunshot victims survive being shot. So as many have pointed out any handgun is not enough gun.
Pinetor, keep in mind today Jackson tomorrow Clinton and all Hinds County!

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Re: Does new .380 ammo have the same stopping power as a .38 special?

Post by TomBomb on Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:48 pm

Bean, excellent point.....hmmmmm that is until more people start carrying the 5.7 !!!!!!!!

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Re: Does new .380 ammo have the same stopping power as a .38 special?

Post by Beancounter on Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:10 pm

I bought a S&W model 37 at the last gun show. So I guess that will do for extreme concealment, but I still want a fairly full size gun that can be concealed. I have a chance to buy a glock 21 in .45acp with night sights for $400.00 used. It looks beat up on the outside but the inside looks good. Some one must have just left it on the floor board of their truck and never cleaned it. Is this a good price and has any one had any experience with this Glock? I'm also looking at the Glock 30 or the Taurus 617 .357 7 shot snubbie revolver. Anyone owned one of these?

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Re: Does new .380 ammo have the same stopping power as a .38 special?

Post by TimeKiller911 on Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:33 am

Beancounter, I get your point that more folks are surving gsw's now-a-days due to advancements in medical care, but my experience tells me otherwise. Yes, medical care plays a big role, but people just can't shoot anymore. Sure, there may be more weapons floating around out there, but for the majority of gun owners...they buy a weapon, sight it in, and keep in the nightstand for the next decade. Shot placement, luck, and a good prayer seem to be the key. I've had people survive a shotgun blast to the head with buckshot and yet victims die, quickly, from a gsw to the chest with rat shot from a 22.

Myself, I'm sold on Glocks. The fact that this gun has been sliding around a floorboard for who knows how long, still functions without a hiccup should say something. $400 may be a wee bit steep for one in that condition. Of course, a nice set of night sights will run a benjamin, $375 offers.

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Re: Does new .380 ammo have the same stopping power as a .38 special?

Post by TheGreatGonzo on Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:49 am

I have always hated the term "stopping power" when it comes to handguns. I think it lends confidence where there should be none...in the ability of a handgun round to effectively stop a human being dedicated to doing you harm and surviving. Of course, since we can't all be Blackwater UberTactical Operators and run around with an M4 or an AK at the ready, most of us have to rely on handguns for self-protection on a daily basis. That being said, my personal rule has always been that the .38 Special was the smallest caliber I would ever rely on for a "primary" handgun. I have carried a .32 and a .380 before, but only as a second gun. For the most part, I don't go below the 9mm these days. There are too many reliable, extremely compact 9mm pistols available, in my mind, to justify carrying a smaller caliber. Just my humble opinion...
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Re: Does new .380 ammo have the same stopping power as a .38 special?

Post by Doug Bowser on Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:53 am

If I am in the house, I would use the pistol to fight my way to my shotguns.

Handguns do not have the stopping power of a Magnum OO 12 ga.
In the .38 spl, I would use my Keith semi-wad cutter 168 gr bullet with 3.5 gr of Bullseye, for a defense load. It is more powerful than a .380 ACP.

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Re: Does new .380 ammo have the same stopping power as a .38 special?

Post by Leopardcurdog on Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:00 pm

Beancounter wrote:I bought a S&W model 37 at the last gun show. So I guess that will do for extreme concealment, but I still want a fairly full size gun that can be concealed. I have a chance to buy a glock 21 in .45acp with night sights for $400.00 used. It looks beat up on the outside but the inside looks good. Some one must have just left it on the floor board of their truck and never cleaned it. Is this a good price and has any one had any experience with this Glock? I'm also looking at the Glock 30 or the Taurus 617 .357 7 shot snubbie revolver. Anyone owned one of these?

I've got a 21. 80% of the time I carrying a revo, but when I do carry a semi auto, that is what I tote. Love it. It's really not that hard to conceal either. If I was hunting one, I'd jump on that one.

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