newbie questions

so i've been looking at some uspsa style comp videos and i have a few questions
1. each course looks to be set up differently, so are there practice runs to learn the course?
2. how do you determine which targets to engage in which order at each station?
3. do you engage each target at each station multiple times?
4. does a completed run constitute hitting every target at each station in the shortest time? ie are you penalized for missing a target at a station?
thanks for any replies

A fast way to understand the USPSA stages is to study the "course description" of a given stage.
The instructions will include things like the number of scored hits on paper and the penalties for various scores and misses, and Virginia count, where extra shots are not allowed, etc.
There is a website where a thousand stages are available to course planners for no-charge. Look for examples here: http://www.stageexchange.com/
I hope this will get a few Q's A'd

Thanks for jumping in Bob! See you at Pearlington. Are you ever gonna squad with me again????

dixieshooter wrote:so i've been looking at some uspsa style comp videos and i have a few questions
1. each course looks to be set up differently, so are there practice runs to learn the course?
2. how do you determine which targets to engage in which order at each station?
3. do you engage each target at each station multiple times?
4. does a completed run constitute hitting every target at each station in the shortest time? ie are you penalized for missing a target at a station?
thanks for any replies

Come to a match and hang out. I'll help you as will others.

Best way ta rodeo is to get back on the same horse!
Hell Yeah I will squad with you anytime, Professor. That's how some people learn

Duhbob wrote:Best way ta rodeo is to get back on the same horse!
Hell Yeah I will squad with you anytime, Professor. That's how some people learn

You're a sport and I admire the way you handle yourself, and I've always talked good about you.

And, nobody feels worse than the RO when "it" happens, trust me.

Hey, dixieshooter this might be a good time to let you know how SAFEly this sport is run.
There are very strict rules about gun handling and a slip (of the wrist) can get you from competitor to spectator.
All things considered, knowing that all the folks on the range are being safe and all are being observed to be safe...takes the "dangerous" to a lower level for all the folks. You never have to worry about some idiot behind you, or in front of you pointing a gun at your foot. Well at least in principle! Right Cliff?
Like Cliff said come out and try it. Most places will let you shoot free at your first-time match. And its easy to get accepted by a super friendly group from all walks of life as well as all shooting disciplines.

Uspsa matches are held the 1st Sunday of every month. Bring ear and eye protection and come watch. It's a blast.

thanks for all the replies, i'll surely be coming out.. this looks really interesting to me, something i might have to try..
david

dixieshooter wrote:so i've been looking at some uspsa style comp videos and i have a few questions
1. each course looks to be set up differently, so are there practice runs to learn the course?
2. how do you determine which targets to engage in which order at each station?
3. do you engage each target at each station multiple times?
4. does a completed run constitute hitting every target at each station in the shortest time? ie are you penalized for missing a target at a station?
thanks for any replies

I am a little late here and there have already been some good replies, but I thought I could add a bit to the above and try and answer a few of the specific questions, so...

1. Except for National "Classifiers" which will be explained a bit below, each course is different. There are no practice runs. Each shooter gets to shoot the stage once and will only be allowed a "reshoot" in a few specific instances, typically range equipment failure of some sort or interference by the Range Officer. When a squad arrives at a stage, the Stage Description is read and everyone gets to "walk through" the stage and look it over. At major matches, the walk through period is typically 5 minutes for the entire squad. At local matches it is not as rigidly set. Part of the challenge is learning or memorizing the stage in a relatively short time and then performing well on demand. As a good friend has said, "it's like trying to solve a puzzle with a gun".

2. Again except for a few specific "classifiers" or non-standard stages, the majority of the stages allow targets to be engaged in any order. Basicallly you are trying to get points in the least amount of time, so efficiency is very important. Shooters can engage targets in any order that they feel is most efficient for them. Many times shooters will use different strategies or engagement orders on the same stage. There are different theories and methods. Some shoot targets on the way into a position, i.e. engage first target seen first, etc, while others shoot their way out of a position, i.e. go all the way in and work backwards. Most generally engage low targets first and work up, etc. On most stages you reload as needed. Very few, including many classifiers, require a mandatory reload before certain actions can be taken or targets can be engaged.

3. The majority of stages score the best two hits on paper targets and require steel to be knocked down to score. Again, on the majority of the stages, you can shoot as much as you want and only the best two hits will count; this is called "Comstock" scoring. There are stages that require as few as 1 or many as 6, but these are not the norm. There are also stages that limit the number of rounds that can be fired to the exact number that will be scored. This is called "Virginia Count" and penalties are given for extra shots fired and extra hits on the targets.

4. Stages are scored based on "hit factor", which is points divided by time. For example, 100 points in 10 seconds is a 10.0 hitfactor. 90 points in 9 seconds would tie that score since it would also be a 10.0 hitfactor. On a typical stage where best 2 hits on paper will score, points are given for the best two hits (5 points maximum if the hit is in the "A" zone regardless of which division or power factor you are shooting, and scoring areas on the target decrease the points further from the center) and if there are less than two hits, miss penalties of -10 points are subtracted for each miss. There are also penalty or "no shoot" targets which are -10 points if hit.

"Classifiers" generally account for 1 stage a match and are measured out precisely and used to compare shooters all across the country for classification purposes. Diagrams for the different classifiers that may be used can be found here.

If any of that was confusing, please let us know and we'll try to do a better job of explaining it. It sounds more confusing than it is, and I agree with the above suggestions to come on out to a match and give it a try. It's a lot of fun. One quick note though. There is no USPSA match in Byram on the first Sunday of May because the State Championship will be held on the 3rd weekend, May 13-15.

Hope that helps some,
Bryant

bryant, thanks for the detailed reply.. it was most helpful.. i've really been looking to try this for some time.. i've been thinking of joining magnolia for awhile .. i just recently found out about the stage shooting from this forum... i guess the next question is.. will my para double stack 45 be god enough to start with?
thanks again everybody

Glad to help. I think you'll find most folks are; you just have to ask. For what it's worth, you don't have to be a member of Magnolia to shoot matches, but it is a really great facility and if you need or would like a place to shoot it is worth joining.

A Para double stack 45 is fine and could compete in Limited or Limited 10 divisions. In stock form, Limited 10 division would probably be the best fit but you will need 5 magazines, a holster, and 4 magazine pouches. In Limited 10, everyone is limited to 10 rounds in the magazine so you would be downloading by a few rounds.

In Limited division, you would really need basepads and perhaps followers such as those available from Dawson Precision to get the capacity above 16 rounds in each mag. Typically no more than 8 rounds are visible from a position in a stage, so if you can't shoot two positions without reloading, you are at a disadvantage. One advantage to Limited is that you can get away with 4, or maybe even 3, magazines with basepads and only 2 or 3 magazine pouches.

In both Limited and Limited 10 you can add magwells and make other changes if you so choose to get the gun exactly how you like it. While a .45 can definitely be competitive, more shooters shoot .40 in Limited, largely because you get an extra round or maybe two in the same length magazine (Limited division magazines are limited to 140mm including the basepad) with no scoring penalty. Another advantage to .40 is that it is slightly cheaper to shoot due to cheaper brass and bullets.

I would recommend not spending too much, if any, until you come out and at least take a look at a match and get a feel for things. Ask questions and shoot a few guns after the match if you would like. Most folks don't mind if you just ask and inquire about their setups. This can save you spending money on something only to find out you'd rather go a different direction.

Forgot to mention since your post mentioned USPSA, but you could also shoot Steel Challenge and Man-on-man matches with a Para 45. See "Outlaw Steel" and "Clash of Metal" match dates here:
http://www.msgunowners.com/t12351-magnolia-r-p-club-2011-match-schedule

DBChaffin wrote:
I would recommend not spending too much, if any, until you come out and at least take a look at a match and get a feel for things. Ask questions and shoot a few guns after the match if you would like. Most folks don't mind if you just ask and inquire about their setups. This can save you spending money on something only to find out you'd rather go a different direction.

probably the best advice out there.

DBChaffin wrote:Forgot to mention since your post mentioned USPSA, but you could also shoot Steel Challenge and Man-on-man matches with a Para 45. See "Outlaw Steel" and "Clash of Metal" match dates here:
http://www.msgunowners.com/t12351-magnolia-r-p-club-2011-match-schedule

Great advice Bryant!

He can also shoot ICORE (revolver matches) with his Para rig. That's the most like USPSA but not as busy on stage design. It's a good path to USPSA....

Dixieshooter,

You asked about whether or not your para would be ok and got a good response. However, I would just show up at a match near you, bring your gun, all your mags, about 200 rounds, a holster, and any mag pouches you have or can borrow. If you are just getting oriented, you really don't need mag pouches if you don't have them. I started with inexpensive cloth pouches and holster until I knew why I wanted. You do not need to come to your first match with all kinds of race gear.

Show up with an open mind and ask lots of questions. The folks at Magnolia are the friendliest and most helpful folks I have shot with. They will hook you up, and you will be addicted like the rest of us.

Thanks, Chris. I was putting the cart a little bit before the horse, but you are spot on and I agree completely.

I started with a Glock 21 .45, 4 mags, a holster, and one cloth double mag pouch in Limited. With one mag in the gun and 2 in the pouch, the last one went in my back pocket but it wasn't needed often anyway. Everyone was real helpful and I was hooked from the get go. I purchased a better holster and mag pouches shortly thereafter and shot that setup for over a year before I figured out what I wanted next. I still have it and have pulled it out on a couple occasions, most recently in 2009, and am still competitive with it.