guns and traffic violation

i don't post here much. i own a glock 23 and most the time i have it by my seat in my car. i was pulled over sunday night and my gun was by my e brake. the cop came up and i gave him my id and insurance and as i was talking to him another cop came on the passenger side and before i knew it me and my gf have guns pulled on us. they demanded me and her out of the car i got out and told them that she can't walk she's got md. they searched me put me in the back of the cop car and searched my car ran my name my gf's and the sn on the gun.he told me i had my hand by the gun which i didn't. then another cop came and they told me i had my hand covering the gun trying to hide it which i didn't.he also told me i was 3.5lbs away from being blown away.he keep saying i can and can't carry concealed in whole or in part in my car. he gave me a ticket put my disassembled gun on my dash and let us go. i know i should have told him i had it but law states that i don't have to unless they ask,right? i am wondering if my 4th amendment rights were violated seeing as i was not committing a crime. any replies are appreciated.

since you were not charged with a crime as a result of the search, you're rights weren't technically violated. cops are allowed to conduct safety pat-downs for weapons when they are interviewing you. this extends to any location, such as your vehicle. so if you obviously have a weapon in your immediate possession while they are interviewing you, they have a right to retrieve that weapon to ensure their safety. that's the legalities of it.

your story makes the cops look silly, but they might have honestly thought you were being "shady" with the gun even though you weren't. as a leo myself, i wouldn't take any chances either if i thought you were reaching for or grasping a gun. it sounds like it was probably an inexperienced officer that handled a situation poorly, but not criminally.

lpdb185 wrote:since you were not charged with a crime as a result of the search, you're rights weren't technically violated. cops are allowed to conduct safety pat-downs for weapons when they are interviewing you. this extends to any location, such as your vehicle. so if you obviously have a weapon in your immediate possession while they are interviewing you, they have a right to retrieve that weapon to ensure their safety. that's the legalities of it.

your story makes the cops look silly, but they might have honestly thought you were being "shady" with the gun even though you weren't. as a leo myself, i wouldn't take any chances either if i thought you were reaching for or grasping a gun. it sounds like it was probably an inexperienced officer that handled a situation poorly, but not criminally.

^this!

Your gun should have been on you or at least holstered/secured for safety's sake IMO(just personal opinion though). But the fact is, Out of sight out of mind. If he hadn't known your gun was there he wouldn't have treated you like a criminal....not saying he was right, but I wouldve done the same if I were a cop in that situation

As a former leo, now old and retired twice, please consider my suggestion as one who has been there, done that...more than once:
When the officer approaches, place your hands out of the window or on the dashboard. Tell the officer that you have a weapon in the vehicle and where it is. Then do exactly what they tell you to do.
If you do that you might save yourself a lot of grief.

Total BS, you can have your gun any where and in any condition in your vehicle. In Mississippi, you do not have to tell anyone you have a gun in your car. Yes, keeping your hands on the wheel is good ADVICE, but not required. I would suggest you file a complaint with the department that these LEOs belong to. Searching and seizing property without RAS, yeah, the 4th amendment protects from that kind of crap. Looks like they covered most of the Bill of Rights, 4th, 5th, and 2nd.

it was in a holster.

If all people would just do what the nice officer tells them... (for their safety as well as Yours)...everything will be fine.

Get used to the control. It will get worse. Resistance is futile.

burninfilm wrote:As a former leo, now old and retired twice, please consider my suggestion as one who has been there, done that...more than once:
When the officer approaches, place your hands out of the window or on the dashboard. Tell the officer that you have a weapon in the vehicle and where it is. Then do exactly what they tell you to do.
If you do that you might save yourself a lot of grief.

I agree here 100%.



Let the officer know a gun is in the vehicle. This calms nerves...............





.

What part of MS?

I would like to speak with you. Also, what was the ticket for?

DirtyWorks wrote:If all people would just do what the nice officer tells them... (for their safety as well as Yours)...everything will be fine.

Get used to the control. It will get worse. Resistance is futile.

I usually do not have gun on the seat - it is usually ON me out of sight .... no questions, no problems -- have not been stopped but have gone through several road blocks - no problem.

You said he gave you a ticket -- what was it for?

reckless driving

SubGunFan wrote:

burninfilm wrote:As a former leo, now old and retired twice, please consider my suggestion as one who has been there, done that...more than once:
When the officer approaches, place your hands out of the window or on the dashboard. Tell the officer that you have a weapon in the vehicle and where it is. Then do exactly what they tell you to do.
If you do that you might save yourself a lot of grief.

I agree here 100%.



Let the officer know a gun is in the vehicle. This calms nerves...............





.

lol exactly!!!!

i've been road blocked multiple times, and stopped a couple since getting my permit. the cop has never asked, and i've never told, but i've always left withOUT a ticket. hands on the wheel, DRIVERS license and insurance in hand, cab light on and all windows down. makes for a quick and pleasant(as pleasant as a traffic stop can get) experience. never offered up my firearms permit, and like i just said, never been asked! doesnt matter usually unless you're in a state like OH, or you get a real d-bag of a cop

DCKilla wrote:Total BS, you can have your gun any where and in any condition in your vehicle. In Mississippi, you do not have to tell anyone you have a gun in your car. Yes, keeping your hands on the wheel is good ADVICE, but not required. I would suggest you file a complaint with the department that these LEOs belong to. Searching and seizing property without RAS, yeah, the 4th amendment protects from that kind of crap. Looks like they covered most of the Bill of Rights, 4th, 5th, and 2nd.

I 100% agree, if the OP is telling the truth. Why was OP stopped and what was the ticket for? Did they have probable cause to search the car? Seeing a gun in a car in MS is not probably cause. Did they ask if it was ok to search? I cannot believe how many others on this forum suggest to just to this or do that, hide the gun or tell them first. What a pile of crap. Wake up people! Honest citizens need to stop cowering down because that is what they have been told or because they think it is the easy way out. I work in China see what happens when the people have no rights and are completely controlled by the government and and we are on the fast track down that road in the USA. We MUST stand up for and hang on to our rights every day in every way.

glock23owner wrote:reckless driving

Describe what you did to get pulled over.

I was racing. which is just a ticket in southaven ms. they did not ask to search. the other guy was given the same ticket and let go pretty quick

glock23owner wrote:I was racing. which is just a ticket in southaven ms. they did not ask to search. the other guy was given the same ticket and let go pretty quick

They don't take kindly to that around here, especially in the city limits. City LEO or Sheriff? Horn Lake or Southaven? You might not want to give out a whole bunch of details over the internet though. So now I have to give you a tack hammer to the forehead for street racing because you brought this on yourself. (guilty of racing 25 years ago so I get a tack hammer too).

I have been pulled over up there and been through a ton of roadblocks in Desoto county and only once did my firearm enter the conversation and that was because a deputy wanted to check out my holster . Sounds like the situation may have been a little escalated to start with. Nevertheless, they do have to follow the law.

DirtyW, you're just flat out wrong, Bro..... too funny...... Last time I had a LEO encounter was at a road block.... the cop and I were friends with another cop who I'd just bought the gun I was carrying from, so we sat there holding up traffic looking and talking about that gun.... of course, that's down here in Jones Cty....

Ok, this post has helped me in one respect...... been wondering why I've been driving so fast lately..... it's the G23!!! Glad to know.

In all seriousness, however, since the LEO was stopping you for a "serious" moving violation, racing... I'm sure their guard was already up... if the gun was hidden, there would have been no incident.... I always put gun in center console as I remove wallet/ID/DL just to avoid any "plain sight" issue with the gun or guns that may be in my vehicle..... I don't want the cop to misinterpret anything that may cause him to draw on me....period! Whether it's my right or legal or any other justification...at the time, I want us all to be calm and civil, with all guns stowed.......

I'd take the stop as a learning experience and keep on truckin.... a little wiser to how to handle a future stop....and a little wiser knowing that many LEO's DO NOT KNOW what we think they know about guns, possesion, carrying them, etc etc etc....

just to clear up what i was trying to say:

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/08pdf/07-1122.pdf

this SCOTUS decision from 2009 upholds exactly what happened here, at least in the context of the police temporarily seizing the gun from the vehicle during a traffic stop.

here's a direct quote from the opinion linked above.
"Accordingly, we hold that, in a traffic-stop setting, the first Terry condition—a lawful investigatory stop—is met whenever it is lawful for police to detain an automobile and its occupants pending inquiry into a vehicular violation. The police need not have, in addition, cause to believe any occupant of the vehicle is involved in criminal activity. To justify a patdown of the driver or a passenger during a traffic stop, however, just as in the case of a pedestrian reasonably suspected of criminal activity, the police must harbor reasonable suspicion that the person subjected to the frisk is armed and dangerous."

seeing the driver with his hand near, on, or reaching for a visible gun IS reasonable suspicion that they are armed and dangerous, thus granting them authority to frisk the subject for weapons; or in this case, since they could already see the weapon, temporarily seizing the weapon for safety reasons.

DirtyWorks wrote:If all people would just do what the nice officer tells them... (for their safety as well as Yours)...everything will be fine.

Get used to the control. It will get worse. Resistance is futile.

Y E P