Re: Upgrading a 1911

by Will_M on Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:47 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong but you're saying that your recoil spring is competely compressed at full recoil and at no point does the slide's spring channel impact the head of the guide rod, OR the frame.

What you're describing sounds like the spring is completely compressed with the coils touching. If this is the case, then all of the energy is being stopped by the barrel bushing which was NOT meant to absorb that kind of load.

And again, correct me if what I'm describing is NOT what is happening in your gun.

by **bubbat** on Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:38 pm

Will, I asked him all that too, thumbs up

and no the spring channel is just not impacting the guide rod head, the guide rod head is impacting the frame still. The way he explained it to me was that since the guide rod head already impacts the frame from being assembled from spring pressure, when the springs completely compresses coil touching or not, to over come the slide moving rearward, it still transfers entery to the frame and might put a little more pressure on the barrel bushing but was a minute amount and wouldn't hurt anything,but when he worked on the guns he always replaced the stock barrel bushing anyway. CYA maybe? lol

I've never had a bushing or spring to fail. Like I said it has worked for me, I trusted his worked, only had the guide rod ever fail( He explained all that to me when I took the Springfield that had sheared the head off the guide rod, to see what happened to it. He blaimed the Shok Buffs. Actually never knew he had done it my other 1911s till then. Put a new guide rod in and no more problems. scratch

)
nothing else ever failed or any problems with the guns.

I understand what your saying I have read time and time again it wasn't suppose to work that way and JMB didn't design it to work that way, should be short stroking, jamming,bushing busting,springs mangling pistol but it has never happend.????

by JohnHeiter on Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:08 pm

Here's my take on it. My last name isn't Browning, Hill, Wilson, or Londrigan so take it for what it's worth.

Shok Buffs are supposed to be a fail safe. They are not to protect the shooter but to protect the gun. The idea is that the recoil spring should absorb all of the force of the recoil impulse without being completely compressed to the point that the coils are touching (bottomed out). What you are trying to avoid is a direct metal to metal immediate stoppage of slide movement caused by either the total compression of the spring to the point that there is no more give possible or the spring being too short so that the guide rod plug is hitting the back of the guide rod head. Shok Buffs installed on a properly fitted and tuned 1911 do not take much pounding and depending on manufacturer can last a long long time. The spring absorbs the recoil in a smooth fluid motion. Should you have a hot round or a weakened spring, the Shok Buff takes the impact rather than the frame/guide rod head. It's a sacrificial piece of rubber/plastic that will hopefully buy you some time to see it's getting torn up and correct the cause of the wear and tear before metal starts hitting metal.

You don't need to run them, and using them is adding one more piece that could fail at a bad time and prevent the gun from properly functioning, but when you're talking about a competition gun that can cost thousands of dollars and will go through thousands of slide cycles a year, I'd much prefer to learn my recoil spring needs replacing by finding a torn Shok Buff than to have my slide getting battered over and over again until something else causes me to notice.

by **Cliff Cargill** on Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:18 am

I called Bob Jones and asked him about this. For those who don't know who he is, he's built 1911's for 50 years starting with the US Navy Pistol Team way back in 1961. His guns have won national and world championships in PPC, Bullseye and Bianchi Cup. Shooters ship guns to him from all over the world.

His take is simple:

If you shoot a competiton gun with high round counts and heavy loads like shooters do in USPSA, use them. Keep an eye for wear and change them on a regular basis. If you don't, they can come apart in the gun.

If you're running light minor stuff, then don't use them. They're just not needed with a good recoil spring.

If it's your carry gun, don't run them because your life may depend on it. He said to practice with them, but remove them for carry.

Finally, make sure you keep a fresh recoil spring in the gun for all of the above.

Smart man, but he won't admit it!

by p moore on Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:38 am

Sounds like solid advice.

Paul

by Gale B on Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:24 pm

It was time to replace the recoil spring in my limited gun. I did this for the man on man shoot Sat. (yesterday) Mid way through the shoot I decided, after reading all the opinions about Shok Buffs on MSGO and Enos, to install a buff. Shoot maybe 25 rds Sat. No problems. Go to Amite today and after about 50 rds my slide would not return to full extension without being bumped forward and cursed. Actually you could push the pistol forward with a sudden stop and the slide would return as it should. Must be the buff. That is my shok buff story.

by p moore on Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:16 pm

Not sure, but I removed my buff before going to the meet and greet at Da Shed yesterday. Not one problem the whole day. So, who knows. After cleaning the gun today, I saw no marks or signs of impact, so I will not be replacing it anytime soon.

Paul

by Doug Bowser on Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:15 pm

What WillM said.

I recently had a 1911 built for Bullseye Match shooting. I was guive all the parts to assemble the pistol except the sights and magazines. A 1911 accurized for this purpose is not as reliable as a service grade pistol. These are the modifications made to my 1911.

1. Frame rails peened

2. Slide squeezed and fitted

3. Barrel bushing spread and fitted to the slide

4. NM barrel fitted to the slide at the locking lug recesses and barrel hood

5. Trigger set at 3.75 pounds with .0022 hammer notch engagement

6. Bo-mar extended front sight rib

It will shoot much better than I can. About 2" for 10 shots at 50 yards from a Ransom Rest.

Doug Bowser

by Will_M on Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:00 pm

I'll just reiterate that an accurate 1911 does not HAVE to be unreliable. A 1911 with iron sights does not have to have the slide and frame fit super tight.

The sights are attached to the slide, so barrel to slide, barrel to bushing, and bushing to slide fit are the most important.

Even Jerry Kuhnhausen agrees that 5%, maybe less, of a 1911's accuracy comes from slide to frame fit.

by JohnHeiter on Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:20 pm

I know this is a Pandora's box but you also need to factor in what everyone's definition of "reliable" is as well. While it gets claimed all the time, no gun anywhere is 100% reliable. They're mechanical devices and they can and will break. Is a Les Baer Custom that has fired 400 rounds with no malfunctions more or less reliable than a Para 16-40 that has fired 4000 rounds with eight jams? Unless you're doing controlled testing it's kinda hard to say.