Estate sale laws for firearms question

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Estate sale laws for firearms question

Post by USMCRIDER on Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:13 am

Can anyone point me in the right direction on getting some help on the following:

Both of my Mother-in-law's parents have died in the last few years and now all property has to be sold. All the items in the house will be sold in an estate sale. The guns on the other hand could not be handled by the auction company due to not having the proper license to do so. My Mother-in-law was the executor of the will, but it was contested and now the court ordered everything sold. The court also appointed a lawyer in her place as the executor. Here is where I need help. Since the executor had to handle the gun sale, she had to find a way to get the guns sold. The executor thought she had a great idea. The executor obviously didn't know much about guns and came to the house with a gun dealer that was in town for a gun show (she got his info from one of those roadside signs like the political signs just a few days before the gun show). The gun dealer/collector would be the appraiser and buyer. He pretty much named his price and lowballed the offer! My Mother-in-law (who was not allowed to have any say-so in this matter) had to stand there and watch the gun dealer make his low appraisal and offer to the lawyer and the lawyer took the first offer! $1300 for all the guns in her Fathers collection. My Mother-in-law gave all the guns' information to a family friend who is in the pawn business and said that the collection was worth between $3500 to $4500 depending on the condition of the guns. I think the Browning gold trigger Auto 5 (looked almost new) was worth $700 to $900 alone in my opinion. Most of the guns were in good condition for their age. 14 guns total with 2 of them being pistols. Some were even rare. My Mother-in-law even asked if any family members would be given the chance to go over to the colliseum and purchase back any ones that were sentimental even at his named price and he said no way "some of these are rare and they are going in my personal collection". That brings me to my questions. Are there any laws on how this situation must be handled? Is there a minimal number of appraisals the lawyer needs to get before making the sale? Is the lawyer required to have any kind of certification in appraisals for guns so this doesn't happen? Was the lawyer within the law with going this way about it? She got this gun dealer off of one of those roadside signs like the political signs just a few days before the gun show. It was just really sad to see this happen. It was the closest thing I have ever seen to a legal robbery if that even makes sense. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

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Re: Estate sale laws for firearms question

Post by sidroski on Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:13 pm

Unfortunately, hiring another lawyer would probably cost as much as the collection was worth. If she shows the judge the guns were appraised by only one person, she could show the lawyer did not do due dilligence by taking the one person's word for the worth. If she could show the disparity between two other dealer's written estimates with what the other guy said, maybe she could ask they be sold to the highest bidder. Adding that the person who did the appraisal was also the buyer would maybe sway the judge. The appraiser should have been a third party with no interest in the deal. Thankfully, if he is an FFL, and planned on keeping them, he should be able to produce the guns. If he says he sold them, I don't think he has to keep a record of it. Hopefully he does. If not I would let him know I would be contacting the ATF. (Never thought I'd say those words).
Sorry for the long response, had a family member that came into something of a pretty good value (estimated 17k) and he put them up for consignment. The new appraiser came up with a price of 4500. Amazingly, he had a buyer the next day. Still sticks in my craw and it wasn't my money.
They say you never know a person until you split an inheiritance.

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Re: Estate sale laws for firearms question

Post by 360glitch on Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:32 pm

That's a sad situation. The auction company handling the estate sale should've sold the guns, it is not hard to do. If they did the auction on site (of the estate) they would not have even had to have had an FFL dealer involved at all, it would work the same as a private sale. If they did it off site they simply could have had all of the guns transferred to the winning bidders through a local FFL dealer.

From ATF Ruling 96-2:
In the case of estate-type auctions, the auctioneer acts as
an agent of the executor and assists the executor in finding buyers
for the estate's firearms. The firearms are possessed by the
estate, and the sales of firearms are made by the estate. In these
cases, the auctioneer does not meet the definition of "engaging in
the business" as a dealer in firearms and would not require a
license.

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Re: Estate sale laws for firearms question

Post by USMCRIDER on Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:17 am

Thanks 360glitch and Sidroski! I knew I would get some good info here. I have not been able to find anything concerning this situation anywhere else. I will keep ya'll updated on the outcome if my Mother-in-law decides to take action on it. Thanks for the help and info ya'll!

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