building an experimental can...

by **Beladran** on Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:24 pm

i had a brain fart and wanna try it out... i think it might revolutionize the silencer world IF it works.. am i correct that i just need to do a form 1 to build my own? Second question of this design dont work and i wanna trash it and do another do i have to do another form 1??

by VegasSMG on Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:38 pm

Beladran wrote:i had a brain fart and wanna try it out... i think it might revolutionize the silencer world IF it works.. am i correct that i just need to do a form 1 to build my own?

Yep, file a 5320.1 and pay the $200.00 tax, Begin your revolutionary new suppressor build after you have the approved form in hand.
http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-1.pdf

Beladran wrote: Second question of this design dont work and i wanna trash it and do another do i have to do another form 1??

If I'm understanding you correctly, then the answer is yes. As an individual, you must file a 5320.1 and receive approval for each and every suppressor, SBR, SBS, DD, that you build. Even though you are the manufacturer, BATF holds that you may not replace the baffle stack with an updated design without filing another form 1. Dumb huh?

by speedyrev on Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:42 pm

What if the "manufacturing" process wasn't "complete" until you had finished tweaking (*cough*building and rebuilding*cough*)?

by **Beladran** on Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:04 pm

here is my design.. works in my head but needs tweaking..
so here is break down.. from right to left.. attaches to barrel.. main expansion chamber.. four 1.5inch hollow stainless steel spheres tig welded together... last sphere vents into the the voids in the body and out a single port on the right and left side. body is cabron fiber wrapped over SS guts. body will be oval in shape rather than circular.

by VegasSMG on Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:46 pm

speedyrev wrote:What if the "manufacturing" process wasn't "complete" until you had finished tweaking (*cough*building and rebuilding*cough*)?

Nasty cold you have there. Sometimes we're our own worst enemy. I would absolutely never encourage anyone to violate Federal gun laws, but an old saying comes to mind... Silence is golden.

Venting hot gas will be venting noise. I think you'll be disappointed if you vent per your drawing, but I feel there's room for improvement in suppressors. It could work and be threaded to seal off the vent ports if it doesn't work out. Maybe use the vents like a pressure cooker's regulator. It vents when the pressure reaches a certain level. My Sterling Mk5 is a co-axle design. It vents, but there's an outside tube that contains the inside tube and all the vented gas. The only place it vents outside is the single opening on the muzzle.

I've seen a Form 1 made suppressor that used square box tubing and square baffles it worked well enough. The original turn of the century Maxim suppressors were an off set design and that's being used again today.

Best of luck!

by Dock Rocker on Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:50 pm

Check over at silencertalk.com and look in the silencersmithing sub forum. They have tried quite a few things and you may see something that can help you with your design.

by mascott on Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:16 pm

Does a screw-on oil filter work well?
scott

by **Beladran** on Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:18 pm

VegasSMG wrote:Venting hot gas will be venting noise.

my thoughts for venting the gas into the body with the last chamber, i have seen a good many that vent out the front. Its like you said venting hot gas is venting noise. The way sound dissipates, venting out the side rather than out the front would translate into less noise down range. That was my thoughts for it.

to me can baffles are to d*** complicated for what they are. When its takes you a hour just to machine out ONE baffle i think the whole thing needs to be redone.

by EEdave86 on Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:14 pm

Half sphere baffles were on some older cans. I saw pictures of them on the silencertalk forums. All cans right now vent after the bullet exists out front from what ive seen. I have read(im no expert but i read a lot on subjects that i want to be familiar with) where a guy had a mouse hole in one single baffle of a can and that hole actually increased the noise quite a bit. I wouldnt put any holes in the tube.

But, this is your can so I think it would be interesting to hear if it does work. Try it! Smile

AFTER the paperwork of course... Post up some pics later.

by VegasSMG on Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:52 pm

Now that I'm thinking about it, Mitch Werbell of Sionics/MAC fame designed am early M-16 suppressor that had a relief valve. It was far from successful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell_WerBell_III

The longer you can keep hot gas trapped inside the suppressor, the quieter it will be. Volume is your friend.

by mstrophyhunter on Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:50 pm

I tried something along that line of turning gas around does ok on a bolt gun not good at all on a gas gun sends the pressure back down the barrel and works the he'll out of the bolt of a ar maybe yours will be different enough to cure that issue

by guntinker on Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:20 pm

I have built quite a few myself and I think that the ports are going to be loud. You may can chamber them into another chamber. You want to cool and disturb the gas. Trapping the gas for long enough to cool it down is the key..

by BigDaddyQ on Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:06 am

I agree with what someone else said earlier. the ports could be pressure valved and when you fired full auto could open to releive pressure, but fully opened it'll be loud. I think you can machine your baffles quicker than an hour a piece. Hell you could just use freeze plugs from a car and cut a hole in them. My thinking (and it could be way off) is it would perform better with a large first chamber with some sort of gas disipation media(wire mesh, SS brillo pads, or the old military ones were rivets so I've been told) then followed up with successively smaller chambers with the smallest one being the last one as it will have the least amount of expansion going on in it as the gas should have already cooled by then.

All this is my theory on how gas expands coming out of an unsupressed barrel so those of you with engineering degrees may know way better than me and I could be way off, but thats my 2 cents

as for your drawings those are some real pretty straight lines and a nice looking bullet. also seems like it would be harder to get your alignment right if the can wasn't round to be used as the stabilizer/guide.

by msredneck on Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:33 am

Better consider if the can will be be built to withstand fullauto pressure

You should have seen what happened at our lil suppressor demo day a few weeks ago....we was picking up baffles 50 yards down range

by 22lrfan on Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:09 am

msredneck wrote:Better consider if the can will be be built to withstand fullauto pressure

You should have seen what happened at our lil suppressor demo day a few weeks ago....we was picking up baffles 50 yards down range

OOPS!!!

Bet there was some supprised looks on some faces.

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