308 Handi Rifle accuracy problems **SOLVED**

View previous topic View next topic Go down

308 Handi Rifle accuracy problems **SOLVED**

Post by Caleb C on Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:48 am

I was shooting a new Handi Rifle in 308 for a while Saturday. It took way too many shots to get the scope zeroed. I believe this is due to accuracy issues with the rifle or even a questionable scope. I put around 60 rounds through it at 50 yards and was never able to get a 3 shot group in less than 4 or 5 inches. I tried factory Hornady 150 gr SST "light mag" (now called "superformance"), a few hand loads with 150 gr SST, and some cheap 147 gr steel case stuff. My handloads will literally put three rounds touching a 100 yards through my Rem 700 but the Handi Rifle is a different story all together. The rest I was using supports the rifle toward the end of the fore end and under the middle of the butt stock. Could the pressure on the fore end be causing accuracy problems?

I know different rifles like different ammo but it doesn't seem too ambitions to expect at least 2 MOA out of dang near any factory ammo / rifle combination. Am I off base here? My dad has been saying he thought there was something wrong with that scope for about a year now but I just attributed it to him not being the rifleman that he once was. May be he's on the something? Let's just take the scope out of the equation for now. I'll confirm that within a day or two. Let's focus on the rifle.

I've shot a lot of Handi rifles and never seen this much inconsistency from one. What are your experiences with these accuracy problems? I sure would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks.


Last edited by Caleb C on Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:59 am; edited 1 time in total

Caleb C
Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor

Posts: 2179
Join date: 2010-03-11
Age: 31
Location: Lake, MS

Back to top Go down

Re: 308 Handi Rifle accuracy problems **SOLVED**

Post by inthe10ring on Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:17 am

Here's my 2 cents and opinions...sorry if it sounds like rambling...

I've owned several handi-rifles (and still do) over the years, and like you, I've shot many of them. While they seem to be fairly crude (especially the trigger), I've never had problems getting one to group -- regardless of the factory ammo used or caliber; it may have taken about 10 rounds for the barrel to "break-in" -- at least for the .45-70, but still it grouped in less than a box of 20 rounds. I recommended to someone yesterday to purchase the handi-rifles, based on his needs and requirements.

The bench rest that you describe doesn't sound like the culprit. Sounds like you are suspecting the scope (and or the mounts). I've noticed on some rifle/scope combos that I need to "tap" the scope after making an adjustment to "settle" the springs (I think Mr. Bowser recommended this to me, once.) The scope is one of the easiest factors to test, if you have another one to replace it. I would try that first. Also, I would ensure that my cheek is falling into the same place on comb everytime as I look through the scope. The POA moves with the movement of the eyeball in relation to the scope. I'm no expert, but some scopes/rifle combos seem more forgiving than others. Good luck!

inthe10ring
Distinguished Poster
Distinguished Poster

Posts: 828
Join date: 2011-04-01

Back to top Go down

Re: 308 Handi Rifle accuracy problems **SOLVED**

Post by krunnels on Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:44 am

Easiest thing to do would be to try another scope. When you take the scope off of it, make sure that the scope base is tight to the barrel and that the rings are tight.
Good luck with it.

krunnels
Veteran Poster
Veteran Poster

Posts: 267
Join date: 2010-06-03
Location: Mize, MS

Back to top Go down

Re: 308 Handi Rifle accuracy problems **SOLVED**

Post by dhollis51 on Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:27 am

I have one and the only ones I could get to group well was the 125gr sierra ??? cant even remember which bullet it was. but the 125 gr was the only ones that would work. try a lighter grain bullet and see how it works out.

dhollis51
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Posts: 9210
Join date: 2009-04-16
Age: 38
Location: Brandon, Ms

Back to top Go down

Re: 308 Handi Rifle accuracy problems **SOLVED**

Post by crazyace85 on Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:35 am

One of the biggest problems I see with the handi rifles in the comb of the stock and scope height. It's hard to get a repeatable cheekweld because the comb is more for the iron sights than a scope and the scope has to be mounted a little high to clear the hammer. Try putting a cheek piece on it to support a good and repeatable cheekweld and also try a different scope. Just my .02.

crazyace85
Distinguished Poster
Distinguished Poster

Posts: 717
Join date: 2010-08-14
Age: 29
Location: Grenada

Back to top Go down

Re: 308 Handi Rifle accuracy problems **SOLVED**

Post by Caleb C on Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:02 pm

So here's the game plan:

I'm going to load up some lighter bullets and mount a different scope. While mounting the scope I'll check the mount and rings. I'll also check the crown again for obvious defects.

First, I'll shoot some of the original hand loads to check the new scope.

Second, if there's no change, I'll switch to the light bullets.

Third, if there's still no change, I'll rest the rifle on a bag positioned under the receiver as opposed to the two point rest that we've been using.

Fourth, if there's still no change, I'll smash the rifle against a tree and throw it in the creek. Just kidding. I'm irritated but not that bad.

Thanks for the input, guy. That should get me pointed in the right direction.

Caleb C
Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor

Posts: 2179
Join date: 2010-03-11
Age: 31
Location: Lake, MS

Back to top Go down

Re: 308 Handi Rifle accuracy problems **SOLVED**

Post by Guest on Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:03 pm

Try pulling the fore end off and shooting a few rounds. It may be applying ressure in a way that is adversly effecting accuracy.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: 308 Handi Rifle accuracy problems **SOLVED**

Post by Rw on Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:31 pm

I was just reading about a similar problem on another forum, handis do not like the fore end bolt being too tight. The rest your using sounds like it would put pressure in pretty much the same place as a too tight forend bolt. A common aid to keep from over tightening that bolt is to put a oring over the stud on the barrel, That prevents over tightening.

Rw
Distinguished Poster
Distinguished Poster

Posts: 6407
Join date: 2010-03-11
Location: clinton

Back to top Go down

Re: 308 Handi Rifle accuracy problems **SOLVED**

Post by sand_man on Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:22 pm

Another thing is to give the barrel some cooling time between shots. If the barrel gets hot it shoots all over the target.

sand_man
Distinguished Poster
Distinguished Poster

Posts: 6064
Join date: 2009-05-24
Age: 57
Location: Shipman

Back to top Go down

Re: 308 Handi Rifle accuracy problems **SOLVED**

Post by Caleb C on Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:14 am

I'll try using an o ring to prevent over tightening. Barrel harmonics theory is way over my head but it seems like that could be a factor. Shooting with the fore end taken off and a bag under the receiver would most assuredly prove or disprove this possibility.

I'm also guilty of not letting the barrel cool enough between shots. Sometimes I get carries away. It should be nice and chilly Saturday morning. May be that will speed up the process time.

Caleb C
Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor

Posts: 2179
Join date: 2010-03-11
Age: 31
Location: Lake, MS

Back to top Go down

Re: 308 Handi Rifle accuracy problems **SOLVED**

Post by Beladran on Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:58 am

THere is a company.that will install a hanger bar as they call it.. the forearm mounts to it instead of your barrel.. might have something like that for handi rifles

Beladran
Moderator
Moderator

Posts: 8287
Join date: 2009-04-16
Age: 30
Location: Madison

http://Junikerjewelry.com

Back to top Go down

Re: 308 Handi Rifle accuracy problems **SOLVED**

Post by Caleb C on Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:09 pm

I looked into this. I couldn't find a company that offers these services but I did find some do-it-yourself instructions. I'm a little hesitant to try it though. May be it's just the principal of the thing. The Handi Rifle's main selling point is that it's a reasonably accurate rifle at a good price. If you start putting a lot of time and money into one it almost defeats the purpose of buying it in the first place. Hopefully it will not get to that point.

I also picked up some different bullets yesterday. I've been shooting 150gr Hornady SSTs with much success. I'm going to try some 125gr Nosler ballistic tips. The profile of the bullet is impressive. They have a boat tail and the body is very sleek. They should be accurate. It's considered to be a more premium bullet than the SST. Unfortunately it carries a premium price as well. We'll see what happens. May be the 700 will like them too.

Caleb C
Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor

Posts: 2179
Join date: 2010-03-11
Age: 31
Location: Lake, MS

Back to top Go down

Re: 308 Handi Rifle accuracy problems **SOLVED**

Post by Caleb C on Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:48 am

I still haven't had an opportunity to get the rifle back on the bench to test some new loads. However, I have noticed a disturbing trend. It seems that the fore ends on the handies that I've seen over the past couple of days are VERY poorly fitted. The stock is making contact with the barrel on one side and has a considerable gap on the other on 3 handies that I've looked at this week. I ordered a new stock for a customer and when we put it on his rifle we noticed that it was considerably off center. It seems to me that this could cause considerable accuracy issues. Do you guys know of any tricks for properly fitting these stock? Beladran mentioned the "hanger" alternative but I'd like to avoid that if possible. The factory set up would be good enough if it were just centered. Any thoughts?

So far this week I've seen this on a 44 mag, 308 win, and a 7mm-08. I tried to call H&R this morning but their office isn't open yet. Lazy rascals. You can't accomplish anything by only working 8 hours a day.

Caleb C
Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor

Posts: 2179
Join date: 2010-03-11
Age: 31
Location: Lake, MS

Back to top Go down

Re: 308 Handi Rifle accuracy problems **SOLVED**

Post by Caleb C on Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:16 am

The handi rifle accuracy woes are at an end. I did deviate from my original plan just a little. I couldn't bring myself to swap the scope. It was just to hard for me to believe that there was anything wrong with a practically new Nikon. I did away with the original rifle rest that was being used the first time and shot from a sandbag placed under the receiver. It was positioned as close the trigger guard as I could possible get it. I shot the original 150gr SST handload that grouped so poorly the first time. They shot a 5 inch vertical string in three shots. That's BAD but at least the left to right deviation was gone. The new rest method helped. Next I switched to a 147gr FMJ. The grouping shrank to about 1.5 MOA. Another improvement. Next I switched to 125gr Nosler Ballistic Tips. The groups shrank again. The handi rifle is now shooing Sub MOA with no mechanical alterations. The trigger isn't great so I still got a flyer once in a while but the problem is gone.

Lessons learned: All ammo is NOT equal. Just because my 700 will put one particular load through the same hole doesn't mean that it will shoot well in anything else. This handi rifle just doesn't like the 150gr Hornady SST. Barrel harmonics are a bigger deal than I ever imagined. The first rest that I used apparently placed too much stress on the fore end thus interfering with barrel harmonics. A sandbag under the receiver eliminated this pressure and groups shrank.

On a side note: All of the loads mentioned above have the exact some powder charge (45 gr IMR 4064). The bullet was the only difference. It is possible to see a 5 MOA change in accuracy just by changing bullet weight and type.

Caleb C
Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor

Posts: 2179
Join date: 2010-03-11
Age: 31
Location: Lake, MS

Back to top Go down

Re: 308 Handi Rifle accuracy problems **SOLVED**

Post by dhollis51 on Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:31 am

Told ya. Mine only likes the 125 gr bullet

dhollis51
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Posts: 9210
Join date: 2009-04-16
Age: 38
Location: Brandon, Ms

Back to top Go down

Re: 308 Handi Rifle accuracy problems **SOLVED**

Post by Caleb C on Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:34 am

I sure do appreciate the input. I wouldn't have tried that first if you hadn't mentioned it. You saved me a lot of time.

Caleb C
Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor

Posts: 2179
Join date: 2010-03-11
Age: 31
Location: Lake, MS

Back to top Go down

Re: 308 Handi Rifle accuracy problems **SOLVED**

Post by dhollis51 on Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:56 am

No problem. It took us a few $$$$ to figure it out.

dhollis51
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Posts: 9210
Join date: 2009-04-16
Age: 38
Location: Brandon, Ms

Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum