MAX-11 feeding problem

I need some advice on who I can take my M/11 9mm SWD for a fix. I bought a Lage MAX-11 upper and the gun won't feed anything more than two or three round burst. I've spoken to Richard Lage and sent him a video of the malfunction. Basically, when the bolt comes down on the round it jams it between the bolt and the lower part of the barrel breech. It should be feeding it smoothly into the barrel so the best guess right now is an out of spec feed ramp. Any suggestion on who could help me get this sorted? I'm a little hesitant to start bending the feed ramp with a cresant wrench on a $3K toy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4IGPB4wB3s

Davy, a few questions and suggestions.............

1. Why was the front handguard not on the MAX-11?

2. How much side-to-side and forward-to-back play does the mag have in the magwell?

3. Suggestion: With the bolt closed, insert an empty mag. Now push up on the mag (trying to insert it more). How far did the mag move upwards? This checks to see if the mag is sitting too low.

4. Are there any sharp edges at the bottom of the bolt face? Case heads might be snagging on a burr. This usually causes the "ka-pluck" FTF jams.......

5. Suggestion: Do another video. This time show inside the ejection port better (and longer before clearing the gun). I couldn't see the jammed rounds well in the current video.

6. Have you tried different mags? All of them can't be perfect....

7. If possible..... take some close up (clear) pictures of the bolt face (bottom of bolt looking up at the face - bolt removed from gun), chamber end of the barrel, top view of the lower with upper removed.

8. Are the mags plastic (zytel)?

9. Are the mags new? IMO, plastics mags are "future trouble".....

10. Suggestion: Come to Jackson so we can fix your MAX-11. We can do some FA shooting together and I will even let you shoot a real MAX..... a MAX-10 (45acp)............

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I like suggestion 10., lol. When can I come up? What do you have going on tomorrow?

I had the front handguard off the upper because I broke it. Don't ask how.

keithinvestigations wrote:I like suggestion 10., lol. When can I come up? What do you have going on tomorrow?

I replied to your PM.

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UPDATE!!!

I got her working like clockwork. I took the advice of Richard Lage and other's on Uzi forum and slightly bent the feed ramp up with a crescent wrench and some card board. I also polished the ramp with some 1000 grit sand paper. Now she runs like a clock! I am so happy. I'm learning so much about this gun.

I am now fully addicted to SMG's. This is like going from alcohol to illicit drugs! (not that I am a proponent of either) Now I want something else! So many choices, Ruger AC556, MP 40 and dream guns M16 and AK47.

Here are a few video's. The first one is what happens when you get your semi auto firing pin mixed up with your SMG firing pin!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBlycmyKLPk and here she is with the correct firing pin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT6xDoV7zIg

Lage running like clockwork is uploading right now.

UPDATE 2.0....SCREWED AGAIN

Well, all is not well. I had two separate instances today where a bullet blew up in the feed chamber and lodged a round in the barrel. I thought squib but it was only one round in the barrel, not two. It's like it fired before it was seated in the chamber. Very disconcerting. I don't think it damaged the gun. I was shooting Wal-Mart Winchester 115 grain with zytel mag. Maybe it was a squib but it certainly didn't sound like it. It was a big boom out the ejection port. Fortunately I didn't get any shrapnel but the casing was toast (will post up pic's later).

I ditched that box and tried another one. Things went relatively well, a FTF here and there. Once a shell got jammed between the barrel chamber and the inside of the uppper on the stock upper. That was interesting. Had to really bear down on the cocking nob against a table to force the bolt back.

Toward the end of the day after several 100 rounds, things seem to be getting smoother. A mag here and there with no FTF. I thought my feed ramp mod did the trick. As soon as I was getting cockey, I had a FTF that jammed the bullet between the feed ramp and barrel. After that, every single time I would try to shoot it would FTF. It would put the bullet 3/4ths of the way in the barrel. When I took the bullet out, it was jammed down into the casing. I tried new rounds and different mags. It simply will not fire whatsoever. My guess is that the feed ramp is bent again? Man this is really a PITA. Thank God for AMP-11 uppers.

However, that's another story. It feeds fine, but the safety doesn't work and in semi it shoots two or three round burts. What's up with that? It doesn't do that with the stock or MAX-11 upper. I can't believe how finicky these guns are, I had no idea you had to chew bubble gum and have your fingers crossed while whistling Dixie to make these guns shoot right. Maybe I just have a boat load of lemons. I don't know but I'm really disappointed especially after the 4 month wait then this thing doesn't function like it's supposed to.

I believe I may have an idea why the MAX-11 is not feeding correctly. The stock upper feeds fine. However, from the first time I shot the MAX-11 I was having FTF with different mags (all zytel). I realize this could be the problem based on your suggestions, however read on.

When I first looked at the feed ramp to the barrel, I noticed that the gap seemed to be much larger on the MAX-11. I decided to gap it. MAX-11 is 1.968 MM. Stock upper is 1.423. Based on the advice here, I gently bent my feed ramp up. MAX-11 ran good for a while today until I had a few FTF. My theory is that the MAX-11 is jamming the bullet between the feed ramp and the barrel and bent it back down.

The gap on the MAX-11 could be causing the FTF and maybe even the explosion I had in the chamber. Oh, BTW I did damage the upper. It's bulged. See pic's below. I'm going to send the upper back to Lage and let him take a look at it. If the stock is running fine, then why not the MAX-11? If I bent the feed ramp up a lot, I'm afraid that the stock upper won't feed. There seems to be too much of a gap between the barrel and feed ramp on the MAX-11. First pic is the bullet stuck in the barrel after the explosion. I call it an explosion because it was much louder than just shooting the gun. The second is the gap between the barrel and the feed ramp on the stock. The third and fourth is the gap on the MAX-11 and the bulge. Ugh....

[IMG] 2011-11-20 13.38.34 by keithinvestigations, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG] 2011-11-20 18.50.47 by keithinvestigations, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG] 2011-11-20 18.51.13 by keithinvestigations, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG] 2011-11-20 18.52.09 by keithinvestigations, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG] 2011-11-20 18.55.12 by keithinvestigations, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG] 2011-11-20 18.55.29 by keithinvestigations, on Flickr[/IMG]

Wow - that sucks. I'm sorry to hear you're having so many troubles with the MAX-11. Hopefully Richard will fix up any damage and get it running right for you.

I just found some info that appears to explain my situation perfectly. About middle to 3/4ths down this page when you see the pic's of the feed ramp and barrel: http://files.uzitalk.com/mac10talk/pages/M11magconversion.htm

IMHO, that ramp needs more bending up to feed correctly with the MAX-11 upper due to it's larger gap and higher position relative to the OEM upper. The feed ramp is not as important with the OEM upper due to the barrel's location relative to the feed ramp and magazine.



Hand feed some dummy rounds and you'll see the magazine is still holding the rear of the bullet as the nose is entering the chamber on the OEM upper so the ramp doesn't really come into play. Feed ramp position is much more critical with the MAX-11

I did the hand feed thing and can clearly see that the bullets are nose diving between the feed ramp and barrel. Not to mention it happens when I pull the trigger anyway. Also, I've found a lot of good reading on this page: http://files.uzitalk.com/mac10talk/pages/M11magconversion.htm

You coming back over this way any time soon? Aren't you bud's with Subgunfan? He and I are going to meet up one day. I'm only an hour away from Jackson.

Enjoying reading your posts...so sorry you having so many issues though. I would be livid

You "cured" me from wanting to purchase a Full Auto

msredneck wrote:Enjoying reading your posts...so sorry you having so many issues though. I would be livid

You "cured" me from wanting to purchase a Full Auto

We'll I'm sure there wouldn't be so many issues if you went with a $15K M16. The M/11 is just a sheet metal toy gun that has to have everything working EXACTLY right. However, from my research once it's working it's good to go. The challenges here haven't turned me off...I just bought an MAC-10. The feeding ramp issue is null when I shoot with my AMP-11. It rocks and rolls: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgNz-kvcj3U

Great Vid Heck yeah...rock and roll is right....

keithinvestigations wrote:..................... You coming back over this way any time soon? Aren't you bud's with Subgunfan? He and I are going to meet up one day. I'm only an hour away from Jackson.

WOW..... you must drive FAST..........

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I just bought an MAC-10.........

What make and caliber did you buy?

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Powder springs MAC-10 .45. It was the listing on UZI forum, the guy selling six or so of them.

SubGunFan wrote:

keithinvestigations wrote:..................... You coming back over this way any time soon? Aren't you bud's with Subgunfan? He and I are going to meet up one day. I'm only an hour away from Jackson.

WOW..... you must drive FAST..........

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Yes, I have a GTO LS2 6.0 Maybe an hour and 20 min's

keithinvestigations wrote:Powder springs MAC-10 .45. It was the listing on UZI forum, the guy selling six or so of them.

PLEASE tell me you DIDN'T buy one of those stripped lowers for $2500...... Finding all the "good" parts to complete it will be tough & $$$$$.

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