Main battle/SHTF/Survival Rifle - Bolt action or auto?

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Main battle/SHTF/Survival Rifle - Bolt action or auto?

Post by hawghound on Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:33 pm

Under the "Picking the right combination of calibers for self-reliance", the topic of a Main Battle Rifle came up. As one of the authors suggested, the key factors would be A) parts replacement and B) availability of ammo.

A) factors-
The less parts a rifle has on it, the less parts one has to keep on hand
The better quality the rifle, the less breakage of parts,
The ability to work on the rifle, and
The more common the rifle, the more potential for finding parts.

A good quality bolt action like the Remington 700 or Ruger 77 has less parts and are common, but does these factors make them better for a Main battle/SHTF/Survival Rifle than a AR in .308? Say, compare the Ruger Gunsite (308, bolt) to a DPMS Oracle or AP4 (308, auto). Both rifles have 16.5" barrels and both have magazines.

B) factors-
The ability to obtain ammo. Is the ammo a 'common' round ?
The ability to reload ammo. Is the brass and bullets common?

I really like the 6.8 SPC as a round but I would not consider it a common round. I can't go the Wal-Mart and purchase the round. The brass is not what I call common but the bullets are .277 (the same as the .270 Winchester). Would you sell the rifle and purchase something more common or would you stock up on brass and bullets?

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Re: Main battle/SHTF/Survival Rifle - Bolt action or auto?

Post by captain-03 on Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:38 pm

Just one thought -- if you have to travel/bug-out you can't take all those bullets/brass and/or loaded rounds. I would want something that is common .... IF it is strictly for SHTF time.

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Re: Main battle/SHTF/Survival Rifle - Bolt action or auto?

Post by hawghound on Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:49 pm

Good point! Weight and space are both factors.

A Ruger Gunsite weighs less than a DPMS AP4.

On average, short action ammo weighs less than and takes less space than long action ammo, Etc.

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Re: Main battle/SHTF/Survival Rifle - Bolt action or auto?

Post by Eaglestroker on Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:56 pm

I think a 30-30 lever would be my choice. Light/compact, and a wildly popular round that's been around over a hundred years means you'd be able to find it for some time to come.

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Re: Main battle/SHTF/Survival Rifle - Bolt action or auto?

Post by Beladran on Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:03 pm

i got a G3/hk91 clone for this reason.. I was actually torn on caliber to shoot. Maybe i was overthinking the situation but to me if i was the military/gov and all heck breaks out i would suck up ALL ammo that they use or could use. 9mm, 45acp, 308, 7.62x39, 300 winmag, 338 lapua, 50bmg. If that happened a wild cat or less common caliber might have been better since you might actually could find it??? IDK to much thinking.
i watched enough sniper matches to realize both bolt guns and autos have their place in the battle field. G3 will not produce 3inch groups at 600 yards like a good 700 will. G3 will put more rounds on targets faster at closer ranges than a bolt gun can and with drum mags could even throw down some half way decent supressing fire. a AR based 308 will/should produce better long range results than a battle rifle. But as of right now i plan on buying TONS of parts for my rifle will surplus is still out there. I want to get enough parts so that i can keep my rifle in service for at least two-three generations

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Re: Main battle/SHTF/Survival Rifle - Bolt action or auto?

Post by Beladran on Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:05 pm

hawghound wrote:
The better quality the rifle, the less breakage of parts,

AK-47 defeats that logic lol

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Re: Main battle/SHTF/Survival Rifle - Bolt action or auto?

Post by sand_man on Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:44 pm

Lever 30-30 or 44 mag. I know it's not a 308 but I could keep them ducking with it.

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Re: Main battle/SHTF/Survival Rifle - Bolt action or auto?

Post by hawghound on Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:46 pm

Eaglestroker wrote:I think a 30-30 lever would be my choice. Light/compact, and a wildly popular round that's been around over a hundred years means you'd be able to find it for some time to come.

I have read a number of authors had state that a 30-30 or 44 mag lever would be the way to go. For one, it doesn't look like a assault rifle but holds 6 (30-30) or 10 (44 ) rounds in the tube. They both have the power to kill most all North American game out to a decent distance. The ammo is very common and easy to reload. And as one author stated about the 30-30 - "it seems every hunters closet has one in the corner."

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Re: Main battle/SHTF/Survival Rifle - Bolt action or auto?

Post by arnygollott3 on Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:07 pm

.308 of some flavor

From a self defense stand point, defending your home and your family that is...

If you are in a more urban setting I say an Socom II M1A since threats will often likely be closer and perhaps even inside, if you are in a more rural setting and your property to defend is fairly large I think an accurate bolt gun could be better where distances might be greater...

Either one would NEED to be accompanied by a handgun AND if possible a Henry Survival .22 Rifle too...


Last edited by arnygollott3 on Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Main battle/SHTF/Survival Rifle - Bolt action or auto?

Post by Beladran on Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:21 pm

Lol you need the best if both worlds like a sniper spotter team one with a long range bolt gun an One with a semi... Husband an wife duo

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Re: Main battle/SHTF/Survival Rifle - Bolt action or auto?

Post by SOCOM SHTR on Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:33 pm

Tough choice as with the caliber topic, question is are you going to have to fight off hoards of huligans, do you wanta engage groups do you want to give up your position etc. I personnally like auto's over bolt's.

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Re: Main battle/SHTF/Survival Rifle - Bolt action or auto?

Post by SilentHitz on Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:41 pm

Of the 2 actions you listed...bolt action. Less moving parts to replace, IF you can find them in a SHTF situation.

Although I love the .308, I have a 30/06 #1, you can find ammo anywhere...even the old country stores. They may not have much ammo, but will almost always have 06, 30/30, and 12 ga. ( add .22)

Also agree with those who say keep a 30/30 lever on hand for the same reason...got a Marlin in the safe myself. Would like to find an old Savage in .308 to round out my particular needs...yours may be different.

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Re: Main battle/SHTF/Survival Rifle - Bolt action or auto?

Post by msredneck on Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:59 pm

got plenty bolts...plenty ammo...can roll my own...

308 bolt action - hands down

I aint gonna slug it out...single man in a battle loses..I'm gonna hide out pick em off

a 22 would be quite handy for critter gathering....ya'll do eat critters don't ya?

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Re: Main battle/SHTF/Survival Rifle - Bolt action or auto?

Post by hawghound on Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:01 pm

Personally, I was taught (from a very young age) that if someone could hear or see you more than few yards then you too loud and too far in the open.

I saw a post yesterday about killing hogs using a threaded Ruger 77 44 mag. that shot subsonic 300 grain bullets that has 666 fpe at the muzzle and still has 575 FPE at 100 yds. That would be a consideration in a survival / SHTF situation.

I like this idea - especially, when there is a Ruger 44 mag revolver on my side and a Ruger 22LR in a shoulder holster.

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Re: Main battle/SHTF/Survival Rifle - Bolt action or auto?

Post by msredneck on Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:28 pm

If they can't see or hear ya.....well..... thinking

lol

Since photos - suppressor has been Black T'ed
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Savage Model 93 - 17 HMR - threaded



Last edited by msredneck on Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:48 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Main battle/SHTF/Survival Rifle - Bolt action or auto?

Post by BigDaddyQ on Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:31 pm

I am thinking if i had to part with everything but 1 rifle I'd have to keep my Ar in .223, but as I said before I like versatility and will be keeping all my rifles in all my calibers as long as possible.

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Re: Main battle/SHTF/Survival Rifle - Bolt action or auto?

Post by Brutus on Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:32 pm

For a main battle rifle, I think the nod has to go to a semi-auto -- Faster and surer to reload and higher ammo capacity.

I think bolt guns have their place, but even if you have a high-cap mag, they're usually not 20 rounds like an M-1A, FAL, etc. Also, military-type semi-autos are designed for sustained fire. I've never fired a commercial bolt gun 'til the barrel was good and hot, but it wouldn't surprise me to see bullet impacts start walking all over the place since they're not really designed for sustained fire like military rifles.

I think the best option is a semi-auto with at least one of every likely-to-fail part in a spare parts kit. Most of it would fit in a buttstock compartment that is common with most mil-type semi-autos -- firing pin, f.p. spring, trigger, other springs, mag. catch, m.c. spring, the odd pin or three, etc.

Smile

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Re: Main battle/SHTF/Survival Rifle - Bolt action or auto?

Post by hawghound on Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:13 pm

When thinking on the subject, I see Sam Elliot in 'We were Soldiers' when he talked about his 1911- 'by the time I have to use this, there will be plenty of those laying around'. But now the AR is a weapon you can depend on. All of the R&D is gone and it is battle proven.

I have decided on my AR w/a 6.8 SPC & 223 upper, a DPMS LR-308 w/a 243 and 308 upper, a Marlin 44 mag, and a 870 with multiple barrels. I am about to sell my last bolt except my FTR 308 rifle.

For primitive weapon season, I have a G2 contender pistol w/a 10" 44 mag barrel and just put on my ghille to do the deed. Don't need a 35 Whelen.

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Re: Main battle/SHTF/Survival Rifle - Bolt action or auto?

Post by quigleysharps4570 on Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:47 pm

My preference would be toward the semi-auto...but...if all mags end up lost or damaged over a period of time...one would end up with a club. Best have a bolt-action/single shot and a revolver handy too. Wink

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Re: Main battle/SHTF/Survival Rifle - Bolt action or auto?

Post by hawghound on Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:18 pm

True ... it is like a Ruger 99/44 Deerfield I had - the magazines were always on back-order and only held 4 rounds. I sold it and bought a Marlin 44 mag. (10 in the tube). I also have a Ruger 44 mag revolver and my G2 44 mag.

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