Militarizing the Nations Police Forces: Has it gone too far.

Are the Police getting ready for war? $34 Billion to purchase Military Grade Full Auto Weapons, Mil style tactical gear, Armored Vehicles and all sorts of other "War" equipment.

http://news.yahoo.com/cops-ready-war-094500010.html

Yes.
Historically, in dictatorships one of the first steps is to militarize and federalize the police forces of the country.

Not much difference to here. In bigger cities they stored up guns and ammo.

Police have been using MILSURP weapons for years. You still see M14's with sherriff departments. It's also very common to see old M113's and ASVs left over from Vietnam. Really it's all typical SWAT equipment and training. If they didn't have it, the minute some nutjob shoots up a building the public will compain the police weren't properly equiped or trained for active shooter response.

I have nicer "military grade assault weapons" in my house than a lot of these police departments and a various assortment of kevlar helmets.

Really, my biggest compaint is I just don't understand how the Department of Justice (judicial branch) can have law enforcemet agencies fall under them. Shouldnt' they fall under the exective branch? They don't rule on the law, they enforce or "execute" the law.

C'mon Phillip M, don't encourage them...!

Gone too far?

Heck yeah.

TankerHC wrote:Are the Police getting ready for war? $34 Billion to purchase Military Grade Full Auto Weapons, Mil style tactical gear, Armored Vehicles and all sorts of other "War" equipment.

http://news.yahoo.com/cops-ready-war-094500010.html

No offense, but does anyone on here remember the bank robbery in Los Angeles that was televised? The one where the police were plinking away at the 2 bank robbers who were armed with body armor and full autos? How about the cartels attacks along our southwestern border? This summer I had an interesting conversation with a Houston police officer who told me that each individual police officer had to provide his own sidearm, body armor, and any additional weapons he may want / need to do his job. The only thing the PD supplied for its officers was a uniform, badge and vehicle. And this is in the large metropolitan city of Houston.

I may be naive, but I believe that the vast majority of our police officers and departments are the good guys just trying to make the streets safer for the rest of us. I also believe that nearly everyone on this web forum is probably better equipped with firearms than most of the police who are supposed to protect us from the bad guys. If the federal government wants to spend my tax dollars equipping local police departments, I'm all for it.

PhillipM wrote:

nothing wrote:Police have been using MILSURP weapons for years. You still see M14's with sherriff departments. It's also very common to see old M113's and ASVs left over from Vietnam. Really it's all typical SWAT equipment and training. If they didn't have it, the minute some nutjob shoots up a building the public will compain the police weren't properly equiped or trained for active shooter response.

I have nicer "military grade assault weapons" in my house than a lot of these police departments and a various assortment of kevlar helmets.

Really, my biggest compaint is I just don't understand how the Department of Justice (judicial branch) can have law enforcemet agencies fall under them. Shouldnt' they fall under the exective branch? They don't rule on the law, they enforce or "execute" the law.

The Dept of Justice is executive branch.

On another forum a deputy in Missouri reported his department had just received new condition M14's from the Army and 1911's were on the list. I'll dig up the contact if any LEO's want to get some goodies for free.

On edit, they have much better equipment now than Vietnam era surplus!

$34 BILLION. They arent buying M-14's and surplus 1911's.

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

As was stated earlier, militarization of police has historically been a precursor to much worse.

BUT why should our officers not be allowed to be equipped with the same equipment the bad guys can get(north Hollywood shoot out folks.....)?

Then of course why can't law abiding citizens have more access to these weapons(think newer FA guns, and not pre-86 or whatever)???

I'm fine with them getting the latest and greatest toys, but I want equal access to them too!

Anyone still keep up with sons of guns? A few weeks ago they were arming a patrol boat for a sheriff's dept. they armed this thing with a mk19 full auto grenade launcher and a m240!!!!!!!! I mean WTF do they need with that???? Their rationalization was possible terrorist attacks......ok I can go with that. But then they mentioned Katrina......now wait a minute!!! We've all heard about the inexcusable violation of 2A rights in post-Katrina LA, and the ridiculous abuse of power during that time. Can you imagine if these were those same guys forcibly confiscating guns from people and they were armed with that weaponry then!?!? There would have been a lot of innocent blood shed during that time if some of those folks had been outfitted like that IMO.

Again, I'm all for putting these guys on a level playing field with the bad guys, but where do we draw the line? When the populace is no longer able to protect themselves from the potential abuse of power or much worse, you have a problem. Again, where do we draw that line?

jakeg823 wrote:It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

As was stated earlier, militarization of police has historically been a precursor to much worse.

BUT why should our officers not be allowed to be equipped with the same equipment the bad guys can get(north Hollywood shoot out folks.....)?

Then of course why can't law abiding citizens have more access to these weapons(think newer FA guns, and not pre-86 or whatever)???

I'm fine with them getting the latest and greatest toys, but I want equal access to them too!

Anyone still keep up with sons of guns? A few weeks ago they were arming a patrol boat for a sheriff's dept. they armed this thing with a mk19 full auto grenade launcher and a m240!!!!!!!! I mean WTF do they need with that???? Their rationalization was possible terrorist attacks......ok I can go with that. But then they mentioned Katrina......now wait a minute!!! We've all heard about the inexcusable violation of 2A rights in post-Katrina LA, and the ridiculous abuse of power during that time. Can you imagine if these were those same guys forcibly confiscating guns from people and they were armed with that weaponry then!?!? There would have been a lot of innocent blood shed during that time if some of those folks had been outfitted like that IMO.

Again, I'm all for putting these guys on a level playing field with the bad guys, but where do we draw the line? When the populace is no longer able to protect themselves from the potential abuse of power or much worse, you have a problem. Again, where do we draw that line?

Good points, this may interest you. Came out today.

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111221/A_NEWS/111229972

Good link tanker. That's my point exactly. Kommiefornia will be the first to turn into England.....oh wait DC beat them to it.

Reminds me of a movie I watched on Netflix last night called "Blitz" starring Jason Statham. It was based in Britain, Statham was a detective, and all of a sudden cops start getting murdered.....yep with a gun(Sig 228/9 I believe)!!! Crazy right? Well as most of us know, the vast majority of cops in England don't/can't carry a sidearm, and with the way the cops were surprised in the movie a sidearm probably wouldn't have done at least a couple of them any good. But at one point Statham radios in for backup and tells the dispatcher to send an "armed response team".........now that's just ridiculous! But that's life in the UK!

Remember when that guy freaked out because he found a live .22lr in the street? They sent out a huge team to contain the situation, much like we'd handle a bomb threat here!

Remember a few months back when Scotland Yard was being issued a new bullet, that was a HOLLOW POINT!? Gasp!!!!! Civilians were freaking out, worrying about these cops going nuts and abusing their power by getting such an evil bullet that could surely kill someone by its evil mushrooming effects. I remember reading one comment on the story saying something to the effect of "what's next!? Serrated edged knives?!?!?".

But they should be worried. Even with limited access to guns, their police force is still far better armed than any of the common folk there....I really pray this country never gets to that point.....but it's coming sooner or later

sidroski wrote:Well we wanted troops on the border. We'll get that and coming soon to a major city near you. Yes, Jackson qualifies as a major city in that it is a state capital and the center for the state Gov't. Be careful what you wish for.
Been to D.C. lately? Armed security (not talking sidearms, short barrel rifles, couldn't say if select fire but probably so) at every intersection in the Capital area with concrete highway dividers funneling cars through the security check points. Check your car with flashlights from both sides and question you on where you are going and why. In sight of the Jefferson Memorial, he must be spinning in his grave.

I went to DC summer of '10, and really had a good time. This was right before I got my permit so I didn't feel much more at a disadvantage than I already did. We didn't run into anything like that at the time, but it wouldn't have surprised me. Most folks there, even the bums were too self absorbed to notice much of anyone. It was an odd feeling to walk by a bum sitting on the sidewalk and not have them leap up to beg you for money or worse, like you'd expect around here.

Now that I've become accustomed to being armed 100% of the time, I don't think I could go back to DC though. Definitely a place everyone should visit IF the political climate ever reaches a less psychotic level( )

Not to get too far off topic, but I grew up 20 minutes from D.C., I can remember in the late 60's through the late 70's going there with my family 2 0r 3 times a month. I have visited every area of Washington including every museum, political building etc. too many times to count. Even when they were having the big protests on the mall back then it was a very safe place to be. I have been going back often. Was there in September. It's not a safe place anymore and has not been for a long time although your relatively safe if you stay on or near the National Mall and surrounding museums. One thing that PO's me about the place at the moment is they want to put a statue of MLK on the Mall right in front of the WWII monument, on the Reflecting pool side which will block the view of the WWII monument. To me its the same thing as putting the Arthur Ashe statue in Richmond next to Davis, Lee, Jackson, and Stuart on Monument Avenue. Its an eyesore and was done nothing but to make a point by the NAACP.

sidroski wrote:Well we wanted troops on the border. We'll get that and coming soon to a major city near you. Yes, Jackson qualifies as a major city in that it is a state capital and the center for the state Gov't. Be careful what you wish for.
Been to D.C. lately? Armed security (not talking sidearms, short barrel rifles, couldn't say if select fire but probably so) at every intersection in the Capital area with concrete highway dividers funneling cars through the security check points. Check your car with flashlights from both sides and question you on where you are going and why. In sight of the Jefferson Memorial, he must be spinning in his grave.

Are you sure that wasn't for a special event? I got to DC pretty often and haven't seen anything like that.

Funny I have a COMPLETELY different slant on the whole thing!

I really could care less what goodies local or state law enforcment have... hell give them A-bombs...

BUT WHAT DO DETEST IS THE METHOD THEY GOT THEM!

As far as I am concerned the "gearing up" of the local law enforcment is nothing more than Military Vendor Welfare. In fact... I blame G. W. and more over his croneys for paying off the donations from Militart Vendors by creating grants to law enforcement entities for thier goods. Trust me.. the fact that law enforcement has this stuff is NOTHING compared to how much we paid for it!!! How did HomeLand Security go through BILLIONS of Dollars?? By "giving" grants away!!!!! Most of this crap will never be used ( other that the vests, which is what the LEO really wanted out of the deal). Clintons SWAT van... cities biggest paper weight. But hey it was "free" right???? right??????

Giving old war surplus to law enforcment is fine... but spending borrowed money to give to military vendors to buy them off. Just makes my blood boil.


PS: As far as "militarizing" local law enforcment goes, I am MUCH more worried about the mental aspects of what has become the norn.

More of out tax dollars at work. These were funded by Texas and the federal grants.

AUSTIN (KXAN) - The Texas Department of Public Safety is unveiling a powerful new tool to fight drug dealers and human smugglers.
A new fleet of patrol boats is poised to join the battle along the Rio Grande and international lakes.
"This is what you call the bad boat. And indeed it is," said Steve McCraw, director of the Texas Department of Public Safety.
McCraw and other DPS officials were on hand at Decker Lake in east Travis County on Thursday to show off the first of six “shallow water interceptors”. Each vessel costs approximately $580,000 fully equipped. The funding comes from the Texas Legislature and federal grants.
The 34-foot long boats feature armored glass and armored hulls, along with 900-horsepower engines. The vessels sport 4 machine gun turrets and state of the art night vision cameras.
"It is fully capable of taking whatever threats they'll encounter. And there will be a full spectrum of threats, because we will be using this as an interdiction tool. The cartels continue to exploit, move ton quantities of drugs or humans across that river and those waterways. We need to be able to interdict those," said McCraw.
DPS will name each of the six vessels in honor of a fallen trooper. The one unveiled Thursday salutes Jerry Don Davis, who was shot and killed in the line of duty in Lubbock County on Oct. 5, 1980, after stopping a subject for a traffic violation. Davis had been a trooper less than 20 months and was stationed at Slaton.
Davis’ mother Joyce and other family members took a ceremonial ride around Decker Lake aboard the “J.D. Davis.”
"J.D.'s mother was completely thrilled about it. She just chokes up every time she starts to talk about it at all," said Michael Davis, cousin of the slain trooper. “This is a great honor for him. And I know he's looking down. He's proud."
McCraw said Texans should owe a deep sense of gratitude to the families of fallen officers.
"It's humbling to be around people that would care so much about their fellow citizens that they would gladly give their life, recognizing that families sacrifice when they're on the job and they pay the ultimate sacrifice with their lives."
The newly formed Highway Patrol Tactical Marine Unit will eventually number 40 DPS officers. The team will work in coordination with local and federal law enforcement agencies and provide assistance as needed.
The six boats will be deployed along the border in early ?

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