AR Stage run after USPSA February Match at Magnolia?? **Updated list on pg. 5**

JohnHeiter wrote:I'm late to the party but I'll be happy to try to help out. As far as cost, I'll talk to Stephen about how many targets and pasters he's going to need and any money collected beyond that could go into a payout for the winners like we've done with the Top Shot stuff in the past. I'll also be glad to send out an e-mail to the mailing list once you guys have settled on the rules/requirements enough for me to publish it. Just let me know.

Hey thanks John.

Looks like we should start to get our ducks in a row so come Feb 5th it will be smooth sailing. Do you think here is a good place to discuss things or should we do it another way, e.g. in person, via e-mail, phone....

Like I've stated before I'll will to help in any way I can.

I agree JD.

First off, thanks John for willing to help us get started and get the word out.. I will work on putting together a list of rules/guidelines we will go by and post them on here. Then we can comment on them for a week or so. I will then finalize them and send them to John to go out in a mass email.

I think we should so all communication on this site because it is open for everyone to see and easy for people to comment quickly on.

If you have any questions, comments or concerns just post them here.

I plan on running one stage but maybe using the west 50/100 yard bay to have two different USPSA stages involved and that way we can incorporate a few 50 or 100 yard shots.. We can set it up to be a 2-gun (handgun and rifle) stage and assign certain targets a weapon.. All steel poppers etc must be engage with handguns.

I'll try and post the rules and guidelines tonight or tomorrow.

Rifle Match @ Magnolia after February's USPSA Match

$5 Entry Fee (To help pay for targets, paints, paisters etc.)

Any additional money will be awarded to each division winner equally.

Divisions:
-Open (anything goes)

-Limited (iron sights)

*Note: Your handgun will be used to engage steel targets. Any pistol division from USPSA is good to go.

magazine capacity up to 30 rounds in either divison.

75 rifle rounds
50 handgun rounds

(bring more just in case) *It depends on how many targets are on the stages at the USPSA Match before...

We will use the stages on the 50 and 100 yard split berm and we will add two or four targets out at the 100 yard marker on this bay. We will begin the stage from the right of the shooting shed on this bay. The shooter will begin the stage upon R/O command and take out two of the targets at the 100 yard mark, the shooter will then proceed to run the stage inside the 50 yard berm section, go to the corner and take out two more targets at fifty yards. The shooter will then go on to run the course on the back of the 100 yard section. IF this sounds too complicated we can split it up into two separate stages. All paper targets shall be engaged using your primary weapon (rifle) all steel or popper targets and the targets they activate shall be engaged with the secondary weapon (handgun).

That is all I can come up with for now. Any recommendations are welcome and I will fit them into this and e-mail it to John in a week or so.

I assume the shooter will have to stow his/her rifle at some point before switching to their pistol, so we need a safe way to stow it, like muzzle down in a tilted barrel or the like. I'd be happy to make something padded so our prize rifles are not dinged up.

The 50/100 bay is great because it gives us the distance needed for the rifle, but the stage on the 50 is always a classifier and may not be much fun/challenging to shoot, so we would need to rearrange or totally redo that stage. How about including the stage on the Back 40? If we start close to the burm that separates the 25 from the Back 40 we could have targets over 40 yards away to engage.

jdphotoguy wrote:I assume the shooter will have to stow his/her rifle at some point before switching to their pistol, so we need a safe way to stow it, like muzzle down in a tilted barrel or the like. I'd be happy to make something padded so our prize rifles are not dinged up.

That makes sense.. What about just using a sling? I guess I can't assume everyone will have a sling though..

Stephen7942 wrote:

jdphotoguy wrote:I assume the shooter will have to stow his/her rifle at some point before switching to their pistol, so we need a safe way to stow it, like muzzle down in a tilted barrel or the like. I'd be happy to make something padded so our prize rifles are not dinged up.

That makes sense.. What about just using a sling? I guess I can't assume everyone will have a sling though..

Yep a sling would work, but yeah, most folks may not have a sling or at the least not a sling that would secure the rifle safely as they run around engaging targets with their pistol. I'm not sure, but do 3 Gun matches ever have the competitor moving around with the rifle on a sling?

jdphotoguy wrote:

Stephen7942 wrote:

jdphotoguy wrote:I assume the shooter will have to stow his/her rifle at some point before switching to their pistol, so we need a safe way to stow it, like muzzle down in a tilted barrel or the like. I'd be happy to make something padded so our prize rifles are not dinged up.

That makes sense.. What about just using a sling? I guess I can't assume everyone will have a sling though..

Yep a sling would work, but yeah, most folks may not have a sling or at the least not a sling that would secure the rifle safely as they run around engaging targets with their pistol. I'm not sure, but do 3 Gun matches ever have the competitor moving around with the rifle on a sling?

I'm not sure.. I have never been or seen a three gun match.. If you think it would be better to do just rifle only that will be ok too..

Stephen7942 wrote:If you think it would be better to do just rifle only that will be ok too..

I think we could do both, although just shooting the rifle will be fun. If we want to do both we need a safe place for the rifle to be abandoned.

Brian Enos has a great thread on Abandoning stations. One of these designs would allow the shooter to start with a rifle and pistol, shoot the rifle at several targets, then abandon the rifle and finish the stage with their pistol. Could also have it were the rifle is loaded and placed on a table down range, the shooter moves back up range, makes ready with their pistol, starts the COF with the pistol, then at some point abandons the pistol and continues with the rifle.

Here is one of the designs:

Stephen7942 wrote:That makes sense.. What about just using a sling? I guess I can't assume everyone will have a sling though..

Having people slinging/unslinging a loaded rifle isn't a good idea. 3-gun matches always have you abandon a gun when switching to a new one. Usually by quickly unloading the rifle or putting it on safe. Abandoning a gun with the safety off is a DQ.

I say the easiest thing is to follow an already established set of rules. We can go the USPSA Multi-gun rules and it follows "Time plus scoring". It's fast to score and we won't have to worry about hit factors. http://www.uspsa.org/rules/2011_Multigun_Rules%2012_15_2010.pdf

Summary:
-Target must be hit with 1 Alpha OR 1 shot in the upper A/B zone OR or two hits anywhere on the target.
-If target only has one C or D = 5 second penalty
-Target was engaged, but not hits = 10 second penalty
-Failure to engage = 15 seconds

In my opinion, this would be the easiest and fastest.

Will_M wrote:

Stephen7942 wrote:That makes sense.. What about just using a sling? I guess I can't assume everyone will have a sling though..

Having people slinging/unslinging a loaded rifle isn't a good idea. 3-gun matches always have you abandon a gun when switching to a new one. Usually by quickly unloading the rifle or putting it on safe. Abandoning a gun with the safety off is a DQ.

I say the easiest thing is to follow an already established set of rules. We can go the USPSA Multi-gun rules and it follows "Time plus scoring". It's fast to score and we won't have to worry about hit factors. http://www.uspsa.org/rules/2011_Multigun_Rules%2012_15_2010.pdf

Summary:
-Target must be hit with 1 Alpha OR 1 shot in the upper A/B zone OR or two hits anywhere on the target.
-If target only has one C or D = 5 second penalty
-Target was engaged, but not hits = 10 second penalty
-Failure to engage = 15 seconds

In my opinion, this would be the easiest and fastest.

Will,

Thanks for the input. That sounds like a great idea. Do we want to do only rifle this time just so we can have some more time to figure out abandoning weapons? That would be fine with me. I think that would be the simplest way to do it for the first time. Does anyone want to volunteer to make a score sheet? I can do it, but would like to have the one we use as uspsa as a guide. Since I'm fairly new to this deal.. haha

thanks for all the input so far.

Does everyone think the $5 entry fee is fair?

Rifle only wouldn't be a bad idea, at least until we figure out how this one goes. Even though my new 3-gun pistol should be done by then .

I'd say $5 is fair.

$5 sounds fair to me, plus do we want to limit it to only folks that were at the USPSA match?

Will_M wrote:Even though my new 3-gun pistol should be done by then .

Do tell, inquiring minds want to know.

PM sent. I don't want to drift the thread and get in trouble!

jdphotoguy wrote:$5 sounds fair to me, plus do we want to limit it to only folks that were at the USPSA match?

I don't think we need to limit it, but it would be hard to predict a start time for the match.. Do you guys want to eat lunch and then run the course or just run the course right after the match is over? That is one main thing to think about is the start time of the match..

I think we should just limit this run to a rifle match only and that will help us get the hang of things and get everything set up. Any steel targets in the stage will just be disassembled prior to the start of our rifle match.

Anyone have any good names for what we wanna call this thing?

I say $6 with the extra 1 dollar I included intended to be given to the last place finisher in each category so I can have a prize. Also the 3 gun I have seen usually abandons a gun and have a pick up of the 2nd gun usually somewhere on the course. Don't think it is usually loaded. Pretty sure I saw them load and charge before engaging. Also may want to think about equipment. I think a sling is required but don't think they use it in the actual shooting think its for transport to and from stations like holstering a pistol. Also how many reloads we gonna do with an AR? I have PLENTY of mags, but don't have any means of carrying them other than my go bag and I will not be carrying that for a match. so does anybody have a vest that I could borrow that will fit the full figured shorty?

Why don't we call it the Dixie Mafia's Double Duty shootin match

I actually think I may have an AR magazine pouch laying around.

awesome, but you are hardly full figured. give it a few years though once you ring and wedding cake poison each other.

Stephen7942 wrote:Do you guys want to eat lunch and then run the course or just run the course right after the match is over? That is one main thing to think about is the start time of the match.

That's a toughie, because we need to tear down the stage and store it after we are finished, which means John or the like would need to stick around until the end to lock up and I would not want to force anyone to stick around unnecessarily. Unless John can let one of us responsible types lock up. If John would be willing to do that I say we start after lunch.

Guess I found a project for all that kydex I have, mag pouches for the AR.

BigDaddyQ wrote:Why don't we call it the Dixie Mafia's Double Duty shootin match

Team Magnolia 2 Gun - TM2G (although for right now it would be 2 gun with a long pause between guns)