Brandishing

The Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network's monthly affiliated attorney journal question this month is about brandishing. I am pleased to again be quoted. Read for yourself here: http://armedcitizensnetwork.org/our-journal The attorney question begins on page 11.

22lrfan wrote:That was a good article. Anyone who carries should read it. One question though. The article says that "when threatened with less than grave bodily harm (say, an evenly matched fist fight) one cannot respond with deadly force or even the exhibition of deadly force." How is someone supposed to determine if it would be an evenly matched fist fight? You would have no way to know the skill of a stranger.

A reasonable question. In any such situation you must decide for yourself whether the threat posed is one of death or grave bodily harm. That is the only time you can exhibit deadly force, or even the threat of deadly force. Hopefully you will decide correctly.

Hmm. Define "correctly". I have to ask: if the person who "exhibits deadly force" reasonably perceives that he/she is in danger of death or grave bodily harm, is that not a circumstance under which he/she can/should/is justified in "brandishing"? Does it not all boil down to what a reasonable individual would perceive as a threat, and to what degree such named reasonable individual should perceive said threat (ie, minor, major, deadly, etc. ) ?? I understand if you(gunluninatty) wish to refrain from a direct answer due to the possibility of your taking on such a case in your professional capacity, if you cite this as a reason not to respond with a direct answer. Nevertheless, I feel compelled to pose the question, as I believe this to be something which all citizens who possess a CCW permit must consider as both a moral and legal issue. "Brandishing", if what I read in the NRA monthly magazine and other such reports is to be taken as true and correct, seems to prevent more crime than the actual discharge of a fiream.

Yeah. There are some scrawny little folks (including some women) who can whip a big guy's a-s. Some are taekwondo black belts and such.

And you never know if the other guy is going to pull a knife or his own gun.

I think to be prosecuted for brandishing it would have to be kind of obvious.

Recall the woman who accused another driver of showing his gun when she cut him off in traffic on I-220 in Jackson recently?

They discussed charging him with brandishing but it was "she said" vs "he said" and they did not charge him as I recall.

Downloaded the PDF...good reading for a later date....lots of talk about Minnesota...I don't live there and never will

Really did not answer the questions I have on brandishing.

My Question is more about what the definition of brandishing is. In my mind you can only brandish if the gun is out of it's holster...or drawn and pointed at someone..in anger

Some might say open carry is "brandishing"....

While I don't open carry in public.

I do openly carry while working outdoors.

AND - I've believe the fact that I do has prevented some heated disagreements from escalating....

simply having it on by body in a holster was enough for the other person to take a chill pill.

I'm too old for fist fighting and rolling around on the ground...I'll never let a situation get that far

If you live by my motto there is no such thing as cheating in a fight then you can fairly assume everyone is going to use any and all opportunities to gain the upper hand.

A friend of mine told me this a few years ago and it seems true about fist fighting. He said the day after he turned 40 there was no such thing as a fist fight. The only thing he would be involved in is a gunfight. Its not up to him if the other guy does not have a gun.

A legally armed citizen can never respond with defensive force in greater degree than what is threatened. Generally speaking, a fist is not deadly force or grave bodily injury. An attack with fists (again speaking in generalities) is considered simple assualt, a misdemeanor. The points about disability, age, etc. are valid but remember the key is whether a reasonable person in the same situation would feel they are in danger of serious injury or grave bodily harm. There is no bright line rule; every situation differs.

It almost seems that if you draw and shoot, then it is easier to prove that you really thought you were in grave danger.....and I'm not saying this is the best course of action. If you just draw, then you might get charged with brandishing depending on witnesses, location and other factors.