SB 2136 Enhanced Training Requirements

I would like to play Devil's Advocate on this subject. Military training is a lot different than Civilian and Police training. I personally would like to see Basic Pistol or Personal Protection training for all applicants (except for Retired Law Officers) desiring a Firearms Permit in Mississippi. There is a good chance that a requirement for training would increase the reciprocity of the MS Firearms Permit to the level of the Louisiana or Florida CCW. This would mean that 38 States could recognize our Firearms Permit.

Another thing, the MS DPS will not recognize training given to a Civilian before 7/1/11. Why should they recognize 15 or 20 year old military training, that may not even have been with a handgun.

I will have no finanical gain in this matter. I receive no pay for the MS Enhanced Training that our club offers. I don't want to see the training requirements weakened, so other States may not recognize our CCW.

Doug Bowser

I will answer your questions between the lines.

308th_sps wrote:Doug,
Why just retired LEO? What about full-time and part-time/reserve officers. Under state law they can carry on the badge, but some departments have policies that prohibit off-duty carry. The only way they can carry concealed is with a permit. Shouldn't they be exempt from the training?

I have little knowledge of the policies of individual Police Agencies. I assumed part time officers could carry and would include them as retired LEO's. As LEO's get older, a refresher should apply, the same way a eye test is given for driver's licenses.


LtDan,
Why the year 2000? Did something happen in that year that gives military members extra firearms knowledge?

Y'all are a couple of the most knowledgable guys on the forum and I value your opinions, so please, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just want to know more about why you made these decisions.

I entered the Air Force in '75 as Security Police. I had very intensive training in several weapons including handguns. Sure, that was a long time ago. I have also been reloading and shooting since then. Are you saying I need more training?

I am a part-time law enforcement officer. I received the same training and have to meet the same qualifications as full-time officers. I have to re-qualify every year just like full-time. Are you saying I need more training?

I know this is for LT DAN but I have an opinion as well,
I am a very experienced NRA, USAS (Olympic Committee) and 4h Level 2 handgun trainer. If I had not signed up to be a MS DPS Approved Instructor, all my training before 7/1/11 would have been null and void in the eyes of the MSDPS. I would have had to participate in a class approved by the MSDPS. Why should there be such a double standard when it comes to the training? The way the Proposed Law reads, there is no limit on how old the training is for the military people. Also military combat training is a lot different than the training we give Civilians. I know there is training for handguns with Military Police, but the Proposed Law does not differentiate. I believe it is too broad and covers people that may not have the proper training. Here are my qualifications that the MS DPS would have ignored in having an Enhanced Sticker put on my MS Firearms Permit:

DOUGLAS BOWSER


Marksmanship Qualifications and Experience

TRAINING
Approval for MS DPS Enhanced Pistol permit Training 2011
Approval for Louisiana Highway Patrol Concealed Carry Trainer #388 2010
Completed the Training to be an ASEP Coach for the Shooting Sports 2008
USA Shooting Level 1 Range Official in Rifle 2008
4H Level 2 Pistol National Training at Wakefield, VA 2007
4H Shotgun Level Instructor training at Batesville, MS 2006
NRA Range Technical Team Advisor for Mississippi, Training in Atlanta, GA 2005
NRA Level II International Pistol Coach and Member of National Coach Development Staff. Training at Fairfax, VA 2004
Attended 4H Sponsored NRA Pistol Coach School in Raymond, MS 2004
4H Rifle Level 1 Instructor Training in Jackson, MS 1999
Member of SGC Highpower Rifle Camp Perry Teams, trained by Marine and Army Coaches 1984-85-86-87-88
Member Mississippi State Association Highpower Team to Camp Perry. Trained by Marine Coaches 1983
Attended US Army Advanced Small Arms Firing Schools for Rifle at Camp Perry, Ohio 1984-85-86-88
Attended US Army Small Arms Firing School for Rifle at Camp Perry, Ohio 1983
Attended Training Sessions for International Pistol at Gulfport Police Department. Instruction given by Jim McNally a former Olympic Pistol Shooter 1977-79
NRA Instructor Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun and Personal Protection 1977-2012
Attended Civilian Pistol Training and .38 revolver Bullseye Pistol Matches at the Syracuse PD’s Public Safety Building, Syracuse, NY 1964-1968
Member in Elbridge NY Rod & Gun Club DCM Team, training with M1 Garand and 1903-A3 rifles 1962-1972, competed in 500 yard matches in NY in 1962-72.
Team Leader for North South Skirmish Club 2nd New York Light Cavalry, shot and trained with original Civil War Muskets, Cannons, Revolvers and Carbines in State and National Competition. Syracuse, NY 1958-61
Member Onondaga County Sheriff’s Junior Rifle Club 1957, Syracuse, New York
Attended Training for .22rf Rifle and Shotgun at Boy Scout Jamboree in 1957 at Valley Forge, PA
Member National Guard .22rf Junior Rifle Team in 1955 Syracuse, NY

GUN CLUB AFFILIATIONS:

Member USA Shooting 2007-12
Member and President Mississippi State Firearm Owners Association 2003-2011
Member Southwest Gun Club 1976- 2012 presently Secretary
Member Bellevue Gun Club, Belleview, FL Trap, Rifle and Pistol Matches 1974-1976
Member Gator Skeet and Trap Club, Gainesville, FL 1974-1976
Member Backwater Sportsman Club. Muzzle loading matches, Florida 1974-1976
Life Member National Rifle Association 1965
Member Manlius NY Gun Club 1964
Member Elbridge, NY Gun Club 1962-1971

SHOOTING CLASSIFICATIONS I HAVE HELD AND DO HOLD:

NRA Outdoor Pistol Expert
NRA International Air Pistol Sharpshooter
NRA International Standard Pistol Expert
NRA International Free Pistol Sharpshooter
NRA International Rapid Fire Pistol Sharpshooter
NRA International Centerfire Pistol Expert
NRA Action Pistol Expert
NRA Highpower Rifle Expert
NRA 4 Position .22rf Rifle Expert
NRA 3 Position .22rf Rifle Sharpshooter
NRA International Big Bore Standard Rifle Sharpshooter
NRA Mid Range BP cartridge rifle Sharpshooter
NRA HP Sporting Rifle Expert
NRA .22rf Rifle Silhouette A Class
NRA Light Rifle Expert
CMP .22rf Sporter Rifle Gold
CMP Vintage Rifle Gold
CMP JC Garand Match Silver
CMP JC Garand Match Gold


CLASSES AND INSTRUCTION I HAVE GIVEN:
Instructor for NRA Personal Protection in the Home McComb, MS 2/12
Assistant Instructor for NRA Instructor Class for Basic Pistol Hernando, MS 1/12
Instructor NRA Basic Pistol Como, MS 1/12
Instructor NRA Personal Protection in the Home McComb, MS 12/2011
Instructor NRA Personal Protection in the Home McComb, MS 10/2011
Instructor CMP M1 Garand Clinic McComb, MS 2011
Instructor & Coordinator for NRA Women on Target McComb, MS 2011
Instructor CMP M1 Garand Clinic McComb, MS 2010
Instructor & Coordinator for NRA Women on Target McComb, MS 2010
Instructor for 4H pistol training, Woodworth Training Center Woodworth, LA, 2010
Instructor for 4H .22rf Pistol Class Port Allen, LA 2010
Instructor NRA Personal Protection in the Home McComb, MS 2010
Instructor for 4H .22rf Pistol Class McComb, MS 2010
Instructor for 4H Pistol Class Camp Grant Walker, LA 2010
Instructor & Coordinator for NRA Women on Target McComb, MS 2009
Instructor CMP M1 Garand Clinic Honey Island, LA 2009
Instructor for 4H Level 1 Pistol Class Lake Charles, LA 2009
Instructor & Coordinator for NRA Women on Target McComb, MS 2009
Instructor NRA Personal Protection in the Home 4/4/09
Instructor for 4H .22rf Pistol Class McComb, MS 2009
Instructor NRA-USAS Pistol Coach School McComb, MS 2009
Instructor for 4H .22 rf pistol training, Woodworth Training Center Woodworth, LA, 2008
Instructor for NRA-CMP-USAS Open Shooting Camp McComb, MS 2008
Instructor for 4H Level 1 Training in Pistol, Camp Grant Walker, LA 2008
Instructor CMP M1 Garand Clinic Honey Island, LA 2008
Instructor & Coordinator for NRA Women on Target McComb, MS 2008
Instructor NRA Personal Protection in the Home Class 2008
Instructor for 4H Level 1 Training in Pistol, Franklinton, LA 2007
USA Shooting Pistol Coach School Trainer Lakeshore Olympic Center Birmingham, AL 2007
Instructor for NRA-CMP-USAS Open Shooting Camp McComb, MS 2007
Instructor for MS 4H State Training in Target Scoring Canton, MS 2007
Instructor CMP M1 Garand Clinic Honey Island, LA 2007
Coach for weekly 4H Training Sessions Pike County, MS 2003-2008-20012
Instructor NRA .22 rf Junior Rifle Marksmanship Camp 2006
Instructor & Co-ordinator NRA Women on Target Program Rifle, Pistol and Shotgun Clinics 2005, 2006, 2007
Instructor NRA Personal Protection in the Home Classes 2003-2012
Instructor for Director of Civilian Marksmanship and Civilian Marksmanship Program, M1 Garand Rifle Clinic Instructor, 60 Events 1977– 2006
Instructor for CMP Rifle Coach School at Shreveport, LA in 2005
Instructor for CMP Rifle Coach School at Baton Rouge, LA in 2005
Pistol and Rifle Instructor for Pawnee County NRA-4H Shooting Sports Camps, Larned, Kansas 2001, 2002 and 2003
Instructor for Rifle Coach School and Junior Air Rifle Class DeQuincey, LA, 2003
Instructor Junior Day Camp for Rifle at McComb, MS in 2003
NRA Junior Shooting Club Instructor with National Guard support, 416 sessions 1976-1985 McComb, MS
NRA Basic Pistol Classes 12 Classes in McComb, MS 1977-2006
Assistant to the Instructor for firearms classes with Bellevue Gun Club in Bellevue, FL for rifle and handgun 1972-75

COMPETITION ACHIEVEMENTS:
Coach for Southwest Gun Club’s 1st Place PPP Anniston, AL Air Pistol National Team 2011
Coach for Southwest Gun Club’s 2nd Place PPP Camp Perry Air Pistol National Team 2010
1st Place Winner SGC Air Pistol League 2009-2010
1st Place Winner SGC Air Pistol League 2008-2009
2nd Place Winner New Zealand Rifle Postal Challenge 2008
Mississippi State Champion M1 Garand Rifle 2007
Mississippi State Champion Vintage Bolt Action Military Rifle 2007
First Place Winner NZ 50 shot Vintage Bolt Action Rifle Match 2007
Third Place Winner NZ 30 shot Vintage Bolt Action Rifle Postal Match 2007
Third Place in NRA Highpower Rifle League Tournaments Southwest Mississippi Range, Bogue Chitto, MS 2006-2007
Mississippi State Champion in CMP .22 rf Sporter Rifle 2006 and 2007
Overall Winner Mississippi State Championship in CMP Vintage Bolt Action Military Rifle and M1 Garand Rifle Match 2006
Third Place Winner of US Vs New Zealand Vintage Military Rifle Match 2006
Mississippi State Champion in CMP Vintage Bolt Action Military Rifle 2006
Mississippi State Senior Olympics High Overall .22rf Rifle and Pistol Winner 2004
Mississippi State Senior Olympics High Overall .22rf Pistol Winner 2004-2005-2006-2007
Mississippi State Senior Olympics High Overall .22rf Rifle Winner 2005-2006-2007
Winner NRA Louisiana State Championship “B” Class Match Rifle .22rf Rifle Silhouette 2006
Third Place Winner DCM “LEG” Match for Service Rifle 1991
Louisiana State Champion combined International Pistol and Big Bore Standard Rifle 1991
Third Place Winner DCM “LEG” Match for Service Rifle 1986
Member of the 4th Place Civilian Team for Infantry Team Trophy National Match at Camp Perry, Ohio 1985 (Southwest Gun Club Team)
Winner High overall score US vs Great Britain International Postal Rifle Match 1985
Second Place Winner DCM “LEG” Match for Service Rifle 1985
Winner International Big Bore Standard Rifle International Team Trial Bogue Chitto, MS 1985
Member of US Vs Great Britain International Postal Tournament 1984-87
Winner Expert Class Louisiana State HP Rifle State Championship 1984
Mississippi NRA International Big Bore Standard Rifle State Champion 1984
Second Place Winner in 2nd Phase of the Queen’s Prize during visit of the Worcester County Rifle
Team from Great Britain 1985
Member Southwest Gun Club’s HP Team to Camp Perry, 1984-1988
Member MS State Association HP Team to Camp Perry 1983
Mississippi State Games Champion International Rifle and Pistol 1983
NRA Mississippi State Civilian Highpower Rifle Champion 1983
Invited to try out for the US National Team at Black Canyon Range in Arizona 1982
Third Place Winner in International Centerfire Pistol at International Team Trial in Gulfport, MS.
Mississippi Champion Muzzle Loading Pistol 1982
NRA Mississippi Civilian Highpower Rifle State Champion 1981
Member of Postal Team in International Pistol with South Africa 1981
Outdoor Pistol Marksman Champion at Festival of the Six Flags, Cantonment, Florida 1977 (I attended NRA Outdoor Pistol (Bullseye Pistol) Matches from 1977-1982. One match almost every week)
Winner Class “B” 16 yard Trap and Doubles Gator Skeet and Trap Club at Florida Chain Shoot, Florida 1974

OFFICIAL AND ORGANIZER FOR TOURNAMENTS OPERATED AT THE STATE LEVEL

Mississippi State Highpower Rifle Championship 1983
Louisiana State Highpower Rifle Championships 1983 and 1984
NRA Regional Highpower Rifle Championships 1984-1996
NRA Action Pistol Regional Championships 1984-1994
Mississippi Senior Games for Shooting 2004-2008
CMP Garand Match Mississippi State Championships 2004-2007
CMP Mississippi Vintage Rifle Match State Championships 2004-2007
Louisiana and Mississippi Springfield Matches 1983-1994
CMP Mississippi .22RF Sporter Rifle State Championships 2004-2007
NRA-CMP-USAS Sporter and Precision Junior Air Rifle Mississippi and Louisiana State Championships 2006-2007
USAS Junior Progressive Pistol Mississippi and Louisiana State Championships 2006-2007-2008
Range Officer 4H ,22 rf Pistol Pearl, MS 2008
Part of range personnel at Wildlife Extravaganza air rifle booth 2008
Range Officer 4H .22 rf Pistol Covington, LA 2008
Part of range personnel at Wildlife Extravaganza air rifle booth 2009
CMP Garand Match Mississippi State Championships 2009
CMP Mississippi Vintage Rifle Match State Championships 2009
Part of range personnel at Wildlife Extravaganza air rifle booth 2010
Part of range personnel at Wildlife Extravaganza air rifle booth 2011
Range Officer for MS State HP F Class Championship 2011

RECORD OF VOLUNTEERING IN JUNIOR NATIONAL & STATE MATCHES

Member of Statistics Crew at the Daisy Air Rifle Matches at the US Olympic Training Center Colorado Springs, CO 2001
Statistics Officer and Range Officer USA Junior Olympic Tournament Bowling Green, KY 2003
Statistics Officer and Range Officer USA Junior Olympic Tournament Bowling Green, KY 2005
Statistics Officer and Range Officer USA Junior Olympic Tournament Bowling Green, KY 2006
Statistics Officer and Range Officer USA Junior Olympic Tournament Bowling Green, KY 2007
Statistics Officer and Range Officer 4H Invitational National Tournament Raton, NM 2002
Statistics Officer and Range Officer 4H Invitational National Tournament Raton, NM 2003
Statistics Officer and Range Officer 4H Invitational National Tournament Columbia, MO 2005
Statistics Officer and Range Officer 4H Invitational National Tournament Rapids City, SD 2006
Statistics Officer and Range Officer 4H Invitational National Tournament Rapids City, SD 2007
Statistics Officer and Range Officer Daisy 3 POS. Sporter Rifle Match Bowling Green, KY 2003
Statistics Officer and Range Officer Daisy 3 POS. Sporter Rifle Match Bowling Green, KY 2005
Statistics Officer and Range Officer Daisy 3 POS. Sporter Rifle Match Bowling Green, KY 2006
Statistics Officer and Range Officer Daisy 3 POS. Sporter Rifle Match Bowling Green, KY 2007
Statistics Officer and Range Officer Daisy 3 POS. Sporter Rifle Match Bowling Green, KY 2008
Range Officer Daisy 3 POS. BB Gun Match Bowling Green, KY 2008
Statistics Officer and Range Officer Civilian Marksmanship Program 3 POS. Sporter Rifle Match Bowling Green, KY 2003
Statistics Officer and Range Officer Civilian Marksmanship Program 3 POS. Sporter Rifle Match Bowling Green, KY 2005
Statistics Officer and Range Officer Civilian Marksmanship Program 3 POS. Sporter Rifle Match Bowling Green, KY 2006
Statistics Officer and Range Officer Civilian Marksmanship Program 3 POS. Sporter Rifle Match Bowling Green, KY 2007
Range Officer Civilian Marksmanship Program 3 POS. Sporter Rifle Match Anniston, AL 2008
Statistics Officer and Range Officer USA Progressive Pistol Tournament Bowling Green, KY 2003
Statistics Officer and Range Officer USA Progressive Pistol Tournament Bowling Green, KY 2005
Statistics Officer and Range Officer USA Progressive Pistol Tournament Bowling Green, KY 2006
Statistics Officer and Range Officer USA Progressive Pistol Tournament Bowling Green, KY 2007
Statistics Officer and Range Officer USA Progressive Pistol Tournament Anniston, AL 2008
Statistics Volunteer at 4H Southern Zone Match Collins, MS 1999 and other MS 4H matches in 2003, 2005, 2006 and 2007
Chief Range Officer for Louisiana 4H Regional Air Pistol Match 2008
Chief Range Officer for 4H MS SW District .22rf Pistol Match 2008

Range Officer at Daisy BB Gun, Precision and Sporter Air Rifle Matches at Bowling Green, KY 2008
Range Officer for USAS Junior Olympic Precision and Sporter Air Rifle Matches Anniston, AL 2008
Range Officer for USAS-NRA Progressive Pistol Match, Anniston AL, 2008
Chief Range Officer for 4H MS SW District .22rf Pistol Match 2009
Chief Range Officer for Louisiana 4H Regional Air Pistol Match 2009
Chief range officer for LA 4H State Match in Air Pistol and .22 rf Pistol 2009
Range Officer for Daisy BB Gun and 3 Position Air Rifle National Championship 2010