Re: SB 2136 Enhanced Training Requirements

by rigrat on Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:38 am

Lt.Dan wrote:

Obviously NY, CA and IL won't happen but we can try right? As it sits now I can't even drive up to MI and have it be legal, as soon as I leave MS state I have to unload and separate the gun and ammo and that doesn't make me happy at all.

LT.Dan ,
As I'm reading it on USACarry.com, you should be able to drive right to Michigan as long as you stay out of Illinios and Ohio and have your permit honored all the way there. Click Here

by rigrat on Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:03 am

Looking at Louisiana's reciprocity map with the other states. If mandatory training would get us there, then I would be for it as long as the cost didn't go through the roof.

by Lt.Dan on Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:26 am

rigrat wrote:
Lt.Dan wrote:

Obviously NY, CA and IL won't happen but we can try right? As it sits now I can't even drive up to MI and have it be legal, as soon as I leave MS state I have to unload and separate the gun and ammo and that doesn't make me happy at all.

LT.Dan ,
As I'm reading it on USACarry.com, you should be able to drive right to Michigan as long as you stay out of Illinios and Ohio and have your permit honored all the way there. Click Here

Yea Illinois is the killer. I am from the Upper Peninsula so I have to go on the west side of Lake Michigan all the way up. Ours doesn't work in WI either does it? Last I checked it didn't. I didn't think MO was cool with ours either? The little paper I got from the safety dept when I got my CCW said it wasn't cool. Looks like I need to do more research.

by Jarhead5811 on Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:40 am

Reciprocity just hasn't been a priority of mine. I haven't left the state in the past few years and don't intend to anytime soon. I can see how it would make traveling much easier. Being in transit seems to be when one would most want or need to be armed.

by Doug Bowser on Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:13 am

rigrat wrote:Looking at Louisiana's reciprocity map with the other states. If mandatory training would get us there, then I would be for it as long as the cost didn't go through the roof.

Our club does the training for $65.00. We will probably have to increase this price soon but it won't be much more than that in the future. Our classes are large (30) but we have knowledgeable shooters at the firing line on a one on one basis. We have never had a problem with anyone not being able to hit a PPC Silhouette at 7 yards and our safety standards are high. If more than one unsafe act occurs, the student fails the course, as well as with marksmanship problems. Our range people will stop any student from sweeping the line. We have only had a bad sweep happen once and the shooter was disqualified. We consider this a serious breech of the safety rules and the student will be asked to leave the line.

Our club does the training as a public service. Other trainers have the right to charge what they want to.

Go to www.handgunlaw.us for reciprocity and laws in other states.

Doug

by rigrat on Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:31 am

Doug,

Does the student use his own weapon and how much ammo would you need to bring.
I think your club is a cut above for providing this service, kudos to all of you guys.

LT.Dan,

Looking at the reciprocity map at usacarry.com Mi honors our permit.
Check this out here.

You are right if you go to the upper west part unless there is a ferry across up north of the state.

by Doug Bowser on Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:41 am

[quote="rigrat"]Doug,

Does the student use his own weapon and how much ammo would you need to bring.
I think your club is a cut above for providing this service, kudos to all of you guys. [quote]

I cannot fault the other trainers that do this service as a business. They have different expenses than we do. Some have to pay for range time and insurance for trainers that do this service as a business is high in cost. We only offer the classes every other month as an NRA gun club service function. Our trainers get no compensation for this event. We ususally have 12-16 members at these functions that act as trainers and range safety personnel. Most of the money generated is used to support our Junior Shooting Program.

We encourage the shooter to bring their own firearms and ammunition. We want them to shoot a semi-auto and a revolver. Since we are so close to the Louisiana border, our class is also for geared for Louisiana Citizens and we have to incorporate both types of firearms in our class. If a shooter brings a firearm that, in our opinion, is not suitable for the class, we furnish a firearm and ammunition for them. Some of the Students are newbies and we have a familiarization period for them before the regular class begins. The new shooters usually borrow the firearms. Part of our class is about choosing a self defense handgun and it's ammunition. Our club owns semi-auto handguns and our members bring revolvers for the students to use. We furnish .38 Special and .22 rf ammuniiton for the class. If a Student brings his own firearms and ammunition, there is no discount given to them. No student owned firearms are allowed in the classroom on Friday evening. Unloaded student firearms may be brought to the firing line on Saturday.

Mississippi citizens would have to bring 60 rounds for the semi-auto pistol and 40 rounds for the revolver. Louisiana Citizens have to bring an extra 12 rounds for the semi-auto pistol.

Doug Bowser

by Lt.Dan on Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:04 pm

rigrat wrote:
LT.Dan
Looking at the reciprocity map at usacarry.com Mi honors our permit.
Check this out here.

You are right if you go to the upper west part unless there is a ferry across up north of the state.

I know MI honors our permit but states along the way do not. I drive straight up through IL into WI then up to MI. If I go around it would add a ton of time to the trip, it's already a 22 hour drive one way. I just wish IL would pull their heads out of their behind and get something together.

by rigrat on Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:08 pm

Gotcha buddy,
Didn't get the part driving straight up, be nice if Il and WI would get it together.

by A. Patriot on Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:14 am

I know some veterans who's only experience with a "Remington" was a typewriter. They called them "Remington Rangers".

by John Pfaff on Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:59 pm

Lt. Dan,
One can drive locked and loaded to Michigan if one skirts Ohio through Indiana. You are legal in Michigan also, unless the laws have changed in the past few months.
Later,
John.

by mjfox6 on Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:06 am

Died in committee.

by jcrowley on Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:58 am

Having very recently finished the "enhanced training" (NRA Basic Pistol Course), let me share my thoughts.

The class was a good refresher on the very BASIC procedures of pistol handling. There was no instruction on the legal use of lethal force. There was minimal instruction on the differences between the standard firearms permit and the enhanced firearms permit. The class focused on nothing more than which end to point in a safe direction, in a nutshell.

All of my military training was far superior to the simple class that I received to get my enhanced permit. I am not knocking the class, but I think persons in the military have far surpassed the level of training that is put forth in the NRA Basic Pistol Course.

by Cocked&Locked on Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:40 am

jcrowley wrote:Having very recently finished the "enhanced training" (NRA Basic Pistol Course), let me share my thoughts.

The class was a good refresher on the very BASIC procedures of pistol handling. There was no instruction on the legal use of lethal force. There was minimal instruction on the differences between the standard firearms permit and the enhanced firearms permit. The class focused on nothing more than which end to point in a safe direction, in a nutshell.

All of my military training was far superior to the simple class that I received to get my enhanced permit. I am not knocking the class, but I think persons in the military have far surpassed the level of training that is put forth in the NRA Basic Pistol Course.

Exactly...this whole enhanced permit deal is just a revenue producer for the instructers and more government regulation for the gun owner...before long it will be like an inspection sticker for the car, just pull in, pay your money and get your sticker.

by Doug Bowser on Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:03 am

The class at the Southwest Gun Club is not the NRA Basic Pistol Class. Our class is the NRA Personal Protection in the Home Class. It is approximately 10-12 hours of training in one evening and a day. We have a LEO that gives a presentation on self defense and the Law. We also cover the following subjects in our classes. You have to show proficiency in firearms handling and accuracy as well as safety. If you don't you will fail the class.

Here is our program:

SOUTHWEST MISSISSIPPI GUN CLUB, INC.
and
THE MISSISSIPPI STATE FIREARM OWNERS ASSOCIATION
PO BOX 1061
McCOMB, MS 39649
601-341-8797
Douglasmbowser@yahoo.com
Affiliated with: National Rifle Association

2012 NRA BASIC PERSONAL PROTECTION IN THE HOME, COURSE:

The class will be held on Friday June 1st, 2012 at 6:00-10:00PM and Saturday June 2nd, at 8:30AM until 5:00PM. You must attend both days to be rated in this class. We are registered to teach classes approved by the Mississippi Department of Public Safety, for the issuance of the enhanced pistol permit. We also have instructors that are registered with the Louisiana State Police to conduct this course and qualify them for the training requirements for the Louisiana Concealed Carry Permit. This training will also suffice for persons seeking training for the Florida CCW.

The Friday Night classroom will be held at the Southwest Gun Club indoor range. No student will be allowed to bring any firearms on the night of the class. The Saturday range training and live fire will be conducted at the Southwest Gun Club’s McComb Range Facility. Unloaded firearms may be brought to the firing line at the McComb Range, on Saturday, for familiarization and training. A student that displays a lack of basic safety in the firing phase or is not able to qualify with basic marksmanship skills, may not be passed in this class. All students will be required to sign a Waiver that releases the Southwst Gun Club from liability in this class.

Directions to the range: Southwest Gun Club’s McComb Range facility. It is 6 miles East of McComb, MS on US Highway 98. When driving from McComb, drive East on US98 until you see the Homestead turnoff sign. Drive 2 miles further and the entrance to the range is on the North side of the road. If driving from Tylertown, MS, drive past the Bogue Chitto River Park and look for a roadside market on the right. The range road is 2.2 miles past the store. The name of the range road is Edna Drive. There is construction on HWY 98. It is difficult to see the entrance. When you pass the landmarks carefully monitor your odometer and be ready to turn into the crossover at the 2 mile or 2.2 mile distance past the landmarks. The range road is gravel and it cuts into a hill. Drive to the back of the property. GPS can be set for Edna Drive, McComb, MS 39648. Look for white plastic streamers on the stop sign at the crossover.

We urge you to use your own firearms and ammunition in the class. We reserve the right to inspect and refuse the use of your firearms and/or ammunition if we deem them unsuitable for the firing phase of the class. The Southwest Gun Club will furnish .22 RF and .38 Special handguns and ammunition for students that do not have their own firearms and ammunition or have their firearms rejected by the range officials. There will be no discount for using your own firearms and ammunition. The following subjects will be covered by this course:

1. Basic Firearms Safety
2. Defensive Shooting Safety
3. Safe Firearm Storage
4. Defensive shooting concepts
5. Basic defensive shooting skills
6. Shooting positions
7. Aiming and firing techniques
8. Utilizing cover and concealment
9. Gun handling
10. Opportunities for firearm skill enhancement
11. Making you and your home safer
12. Responding to a possible break-in
13. Confronting an intruder or attacker
14. If you must shoot, and what are the legal criteria
15. The aftermath of a defensive shooting
16. Firearms, self defense and the Law
17. The legal aftermath of a defensive shooting
18. Selecting a firearm for personal protection
19. Selecting ammunition for personal protection
20. Selecting firearm accessories
21. Firearm maintenance
22. Information and additional training resources
23. Facts about the NRA
The cost of the Course is $65.00. Students will receive a bound book with Chapters dealing with each lesson in the course. Participants will have to be pre-registered before May 22, 2012 to take this course. Shooters may cancel their registration but should do so before May 23, 2012. Those canceling after that date will forfeit the course fee. At the Saturday session we highly recommend everyone in attendance to use eye and hearing protection. You should also bring a bag lunch and any type soft drinks you may want. We may not have the time to have you go into town for lunch. We will supply ice water.
………………………………………………………………………………………………
APPLICATION FOR HOME DEFENSE CLASS 6/1-2/12

NOTE: PLEASE USE YOUR REAL FIRST NAME, NO NICKNAMES OR SHORTENED NAMES. THE STATE WILL REJECT YOUR CERTIFICATE IF IT IS MADE OUT CONTRARY TO WHAT IS ON YOUR DRIVER’S LICENSE.

NAME ……………………………………………………… DOB………………………

ADDRESS…………………………………………………………………………………

CITY…………………………………………….STATE…….ZIP……………………….

PHONE……………………….EMAIL…………………………………………………..

FIREARM INTERESTS…………………………………………………………………

FIREARM EXPERIENCE……………………………………………DO YOU HAVE A CCW?……………

FORMAL FIREARMS RATINGS YOU HOLD……………………………………………………………….
Make out checks to Southwest Gun Club, Inc.

by Cocked&Locked on Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:22 pm

Doug Bowser wrote:The class at the Southwest Gun Club is not the NRA Basic Pistol Class. Our class is the NRA Personal Protection in the Home Class. It is approximately 10-12 hours of training in one evening and a day. We have a LEO that gives a presentation on self defense and the Law. We also cover the following subjects in our classes. You have to show proficiency in firearms handling and accuracy as well as safety. If you don't you will fail the class.

Here is our program:

SOUTHWEST MISSISSIPPI GUN CLUB, INC.
and
THE MISSISSIPPI STATE FIREARM OWNERS ASSOCIATION
PO BOX 1061
McCOMB, MS 39649
601-341-8797
Douglasmbowser@yahoo.com
Affiliated with: National Rifle Association

2012 NRA BASIC PERSONAL PROTECTION IN THE HOME, COURSE:

The class will be held on Friday June 1st, 2012 at 6:00-10:00PM and Saturday June 2nd, at 8:30AM until 5:00PM. You must attend both days to be rated in this class. We are registered to teach classes approved by the Mississippi Department of Public Safety, for the issuance of the enhanced pistol permit. We also have instructors that are registered with the Louisiana State Police to conduct this course and qualify them for the training requirements for the Louisiana Concealed Carry Permit. This training will also suffice for persons seeking training for the Florida CCW.

The Friday Night classroom will be held at the Southwest Gun Club indoor range. No student will be allowed to bring any firearms on the night of the class. The Saturday range training and live fire will be conducted at the Southwest Gun Club’s McComb Range Facility. Unloaded firearms may be brought to the firing line at the McComb Range, on Saturday, for familiarization and training. A student that displays a lack of basic safety in the firing phase or is not able to qualify with basic marksmanship skills, may not be passed in this class. All students will be required to sign a Waiver that releases the Southwst Gun Club from liability in this class.

Directions to the range: Southwest Gun Club’s McComb Range facility. It is 6 miles East of McComb, MS on US Highway 98. When driving from McComb, drive East on US98 until you see the Homestead turnoff sign. Drive 2 miles further and the entrance to the range is on the North side of the road. If driving from Tylertown, MS, drive past the Bogue Chitto River Park and look for a roadside market on the right. The range road is 2.2 miles past the store. The name of the range road is Edna Drive. There is construction on HWY 98. It is difficult to see the entrance. When you pass the landmarks carefully monitor your odometer and be ready to turn into the crossover at the 2 mile or 2.2 mile distance past the landmarks. The range road is gravel and it cuts into a hill. Drive to the back of the property. GPS can be set for Edna Drive, McComb, MS 39648. Look for white plastic streamers on the stop sign at the crossover.

We urge you to use your own firearms and ammunition in the class. We reserve the right to inspect and refuse the use of your firearms and/or ammunition if we deem them unsuitable for the firing phase of the class. The Southwest Gun Club will furnish .22 RF and .38 Special handguns and ammunition for students that do not have their own firearms and ammunition or have their firearms rejected by the range officials. There will be no discount for using your own firearms and ammunition. The following subjects will be covered by this course:

1. Basic Firearms Safety
2. Defensive Shooting Safety
3. Safe Firearm Storage
4. Defensive shooting concepts
5. Basic defensive shooting skills
6. Shooting positions
7. Aiming and firing techniques
8. Utilizing cover and concealment
9. Gun handling
10. Opportunities for firearm skill enhancement
11. Making you and your home safer
12. Responding to a possible break-in
13. Confronting an intruder or attacker
14. If you must shoot, and what are the legal criteria
15. The aftermath of a defensive shooting
16. Firearms, self defense and the Law
17. The legal aftermath of a defensive shooting
18. Selecting a firearm for personal protection
19. Selecting ammunition for personal protection
20. Selecting firearm accessories
21. Firearm maintenance
22. Information and additional training resources
23. Facts about the NRA
The cost of the Course is $65.00. Students will receive a bound book with Chapters dealing with each lesson in the course. Participants will have to be pre-registered before May 22, 2012 to take this course. Shooters may cancel their registration but should do so before May 23, 2012. Those canceling after that date will forfeit the course fee. At the Saturday session we highly recommend everyone in attendance to use eye and hearing protection. You should also bring a bag lunch and any type soft drinks you may want. We may not have the time to have you go into town for lunch. We will supply ice water.
………………………………………………………………………………………………
APPLICATION FOR HOME DEFENSE CLASS 6/1-2/12

NOTE: PLEASE USE YOUR REAL FIRST NAME, NO NICKNAMES OR SHORTENED NAMES. THE STATE WILL REJECT YOUR CERTIFICATE IF IT IS MADE OUT CONTRARY TO WHAT IS ON YOUR DRIVER’S LICENSE.

NAME ……………………………………………………… DOB………………………

ADDRESS…………………………………………………………………………………

CITY…………………………………………….STATE…….ZIP……………………….

PHONE……………………….EMAIL…………………………………………………..

FIREARM INTERESTS…………………………………………………………………

FIREARM EXPERIENCE……………………………………………DO YOU HAVE A CCW?……………

FORMAL FIREARMS RATINGS YOU HOLD……………………………………………………………….
Make out checks to Southwest Gun Club, Inc.

Probably the Best Deal in the State, you pay for an education and get an education. At a FAIR price I might add. Thanks for the info again Doug

by Doug Bowser on Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:16 pm

The training is being done as a Club Public Service Function.

Doug Bowser
Secretary
SWGC

by cwink on Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:39 pm

jcrowley wrote:Having very recently finished the "enhanced training" (NRA Basic Pistol Course), let me share my thoughts.

The class was a good refresher on the very BASIC procedures of pistol handling. There was no instruction on the legal use of lethal force. There was minimal instruction on the differences between the standard firearms permit and the enhanced firearms permit. The class focused on nothing more than which end to point in a safe direction, in a nutshell.

All of my military training was far superior to the simple class that I received to get my enhanced permit. I am not knocking the class, but I think persons in the military have far surpassed the level of training that is put forth in the NRA Basic Pistol Course.

Here is my take on training.. And Yeah I know, an instructor talking about the need for training is sort of like a lawyer chasing an ambulance. But in this day and age, firearms instructors perform a necessary function. 150 years ago there were a lot more firearms instructors then there are today, they just went by the title of Dad, Brother, Uncle or Grand Paw. Back then, firearms were a way of life, both to protect it and provide for it as many families relied on firearms to put food on the table. But as the industrial revolution took hold and more people moved in from the country side to the city, guns were replaced by grocery stores. After several generations of city life there are many folks that have never seen, much less shot a firearm, and yet they have the same 2nd amendment rights as everyone else. So instructors fill the roles formerly filled by Dad or Grand Paw. The sticky part is when people who have been shooting firearms for years, are “forced” to take a class to obtain a carry permit. While I don’t necessarily agree with the permit process, I know that I would not want the State or Local government to just hand out a permit to anyone who asked for it either. The State does have legitimate roles in our society and one of those is to provide for general “public safety”, and the permit process provides that. While not perfect, permits are a way for the State to help ensure a safer, more highly trained public than anywhere else in the world, and that is good for gun owners and not so good for the bad guys and the anti-gun groups.

And I do believe that military or others that can prove formal training should be exempt from the permit process.