Para ordnance limited 40

any one got any experience with this set up/?
Para Ordnance P-16 40 Limited like new. Extended mag-well, trigger job, hi-vis front sight. 3-20 and 1-16 round mags. CR Speed holster with mag holder and belt. IPSC or USPSA ready rig! $850

yall think its worth it or not?

id say its probley worth that.

BigDaddyQ wrote:any one got any experience with this set up/?
Para Ordnance P-16 40 Limited like new. Extended mag-well, trigger job, hi-vis front sight. 3-20 and 1-16 round mags. CR Speed holster with mag holder and belt. IPSC or USPSA ready rig! $850

yall think its worth it or not?

That sounds like the right ballpark. I've never owned one but I've been around a good many set up similarly and won a match with a borrowed Para on one occasion. As far as what you posted, I'd want to know a little more about the trigger job. Who did it? Factory parts (which from my understanding are suspect quality and won't last with a light trigger job) or if not, what brand parts? The trigger job could be worth $150 or so or could be nothing more than a headache. Magwell new costs about $50-75. One of the popular older ones required cutting the frame though, so if one of them couldn't be removed or replaced with a different model while other early ones were welded on. Is the front sight hi-vis brand or is that just a description of a fiber optic sight? A Dawson fiber optic front sight is $30-40 and really nice. A hi-vis isn't as nice (in my opinion) and I have no idea what they cost. The mags sound like Para magazines, 3 with basepads (which brand? Dawson?), and one without. Para mags can run reliably but might be a little more finicky than STI for Para mags. CR Speed holster is $100-150 new depending on model and a great race holster. Belt and mag holder (only 1?) depend on brand.

Is it local so that you can check it out in person or will it be shipped? If local, can you shoot it first? Any other aftermarket parts (barrel, safeties, extractor, sights, etc)? For competition, my personal take is that Paras can be very competitive in just about any division if set up right. Todd Jarrett won National and World Championships with them and Travis Tomasie is doing very well for Para now. That being said, they have lost some ground to the STI/SV 2011's over the years. Some of the factory Para parts just aren't great. The aforementioned trigger parts and safety, for example, but pretty much all of that stuff can be fixed as needed. The frames aren't quite as durable, again in my opinion, but they should generally last for a long time and a large number of rounds. For the money, that rig does sound like it may be ready for Limited, but you may have to put a little more into it depending on the details.

If you have any specific questions or if I can be of any help, let me know and I'll try.

I think he is local to the jackson area. I figured since he said in his post its IPSC and USPSA limited ready that he must compete somewhere. I sent him a message yesterday and asked if he could bring it to magnolia this weekend for the match on sunday or on saturday for me to look at. I'll let you know what he says thanks for the input. I'm new to the sport and just thought it sounded like a good deal. I want an STI but the costs are kinda prohibitive for me. This one sounds like I can afford it unless its a POS.

Experience with the set-up?

My Para P-16 .40 was a nice one...

The frame had Accu Rails, a custom made Otto-Comp magwell with 3 checkered interchangeable mainspring housings, a checkered front strap and trigger gaurd, Ed Brown beaver tail, and Gun Craft aluminum grip inserts. It along with the mags were hard chromed by Accurate Plating & Weapontry.

The APW hard chromed stock mags had ISMI springs, Arrendondo followers and Big Five Mag extentions making them 21 rounders. For quicker reloads, the narrow taper of the STI 18 rounders and Dawson base pads were great.

The Les Baer slide was flat-topped with front and rear cocking serrations, an EGW firing pin stop, STI firing pin, real Bo-Mars, a custom made steel serrated copy of the HI-Viz front sight and matching serrated metal inserts making it interchangeable from fiber to irons, all done in Black-T. The ISMI recoil springs were changed every 3 to 4 thousand rounds to keep the frame from cracking, which it eventually did anyway.

An EGW tungsten guide-rod

A Schumann bull barrel

All STI internal parts...hammer, sear, strut, trigger, etc....

The Para leftovers were filed in the circular bin for future use in Go-Green endeavors such as Port-a-Potty parts and Hi-Points.

Accurail makes any pistol nice

BigDaddyQ wrote:I think he is local to the jackson area. I figured since he said in his post its IPSC and USPSA limited ready that he must compete somewhere. I sent him a message yesterday and asked if he could bring it to magnolia this weekend for the match on sunday or on saturday for me to look at. I'll let you know what he says thanks for the input. I'm new to the sport and just thought it sounded like a good deal. I want an STI but the costs are kinda prohibitive for me. This one sounds like I can afford it unless its a POS.

That makes sense. Just for comparison, I know where there are a couple of low round count used STI's in the $1400 range, fairly stock, although I know one is hardchromed. I think neither comes with any magazines. Figure $100 per mag if new and you would need 3 or 4. Used magazines can sometimes be found but I don't know of any currently.

Cliff makes some good points and his Para was nice, but to be fair it was set up what, fifteen years or so ago? I don't think you have to go through all of that now. Accurails make them tight but may be overkill on a USPSA Limited gun, and I have seen more than one break and come out (including at least one on Cliff's old gun after he sold it). There are several Paras around Magnolia that have been used fairly regularly at monthy matches for most of the last decade that aren't railed. The custom 6" Para Todd Jarrett shot at the '09 Nationals wasn't railed. Just depends on how much you shoot it and what you want it to do. The welded on magwell and checkered front strap are really nice, too, but that was before Dawson made a pretty decent drop in full circumference magwell and skateboard tape, while not as pretty, is basically as functional as checkering for a lot less. I don't think Gun Craft, or Big Five for that matter either, make parts for Paras anymore. If you wanted the grip-less, skinnier feel, WV gunsmith Jim Joyce makes the inserts now and Dawson makes a basepad that will get you 21. If you have medium to bigger hands, some people just stipple the factory grips or sand and cover them with skate tape. Pretty sure STI doesn't make STI for Para mags anymore, either, but I shot my regular 19-20 round STI mags in the Para I borrowed and it ran fine even though the mag catch slot on the mag was different than the STI for Para mags.

Another thing, I'm not sure I would chrome a Para frame knowing what I know now. Hardchroming can cause hydrogen embrittlement, especially if the parts are relieved afterward appropriately, and I think it is potentially worse in a cast frame like a Para and could lead to higher percentage of cracking. The only cracked Para frames I have personally seen were chromed, but that may be coincidence. Google "Para Ordnance frame cracking" for some info. Here is a short thread from Brian Enos' forum discussing it. While one stainless frame is mentioned to have cracked in the rail, note that the one at the end with all the cracks was chromed. It does sound a little bit like luck of the draw though. Toddrod is from Louisiana and says he has 50,000+ with no issues. That may not be a lot to some shooters, but considering that number of rounds would cost well over $6,000 to reload in today's market, it puts the $850 rig in perspective somewhat.

Great post Bryant.

Cliff Cargill wrote:Great post Bryant.

Thanks. I was meaning for it to build off of yours and hoped it made sense. Sometimes typing as stuff comes to mind can come off different than it was meant.

I defintely think we agree on a lot here. If I was setting up a stock Para for Limited personally, I would make sure the mags were good, get the grips comfortable for my hands, put on a magwell, and would at least replace the thumb safety, front and rear sights, fire control (hammer, sear, disconnector, strut, etc), pins, firing pin and firing pin stop, guiderod, and springs. If the barrel was fit decently and it shot accurately enough, I'd probably leave the barrel alone at least for a while but would eventually probably swap it. Like Cliff, I'm fairly picky about my equipment though. Another important consideration is the extractor. Is this a pre or post Power extractor? I have no personal experience with the Power extractors, but I have heard good and bad. I know you can get a non-permanent sleeve for the extractor tunnel to convert it to a standard 1911 extractor (or better yet AFTEC) if the Power isn't all that. If it is pre-Power and still factory Para, I'd definitely replace it just like Cliff mentioned, too.

So one question is, how much of this stuff has been done, if any? Also as another aside, I heard yesterday about a local Glock 35 .40 set up for Limited with mags with Dawson basepads that will be in the mid-$700 range. Sounds like a fair price and would be able to compete in Limited, Limited 10, or drop some parts off and load down to minor with lighter bullets and compete in Production. Very versatile and G35's have been competitive at all levels. That being said, if you want a single action trigger, hold out and get what you want.

DBChaffin wrote:

Cliff Cargill wrote:Great post Bryant.

Thanks. I was meaning for it to build off of yours and hoped it made sense. Sometimes typing as stuff comes to mind can come off different than it was meant.

Yes, it did. And we do agree on alot. It's interesting to see how Limited guns have evolved over the years because I haven't really kept up with it except in passing. The concepts all appear to be the same as you mentioned...grip width, trigger pulls, sights, etc. There wasn't as much information out as there is now about the parts. You had to blow the money to see if the latest was worth it.

And about all I can say about that is, of all the things I ever lost, I miss my money the most.

Also, if I was in the mood to blow a ton of money (I'm not changing ) I would jump on that metal framed Infinity 2011 with the CZ-75 shaped lower. That is a nice hot-rod.

Well I was originally looking for a 300aac blackout upper for an AR frame i have laying around and low and behold I found this. I thought it seemed like a decent deal especially since I already shoot 40 and have my dillon set up for 40. I already have a G35 and shoot produciton now so don't really want another set up for limited. I texted this guy back and forth a few minutes ago. According to him it is 9 years old. Was purchased with the intent to shoot USPSA limited and he said he spent a ton of money with a gunsmith in Meridian getting it set up. It has a bolt on mag well, Hi-Vis brand front sight and he doesn't remember what all else was done to it. He said he got it set up then shot 3-4 matches and changed jobs, had a daughter and put it in the safe 9 years ago. He said it gets wiped down regularly but not been fired in years.

So I'm thinking springs may be an issue, wear shouldn't be, he has 3 mags with extensions making them 20 rounders, and 1 16 rounder. he sent me some pics I'll post them shortly

Here they go

So Cliff it sounds like your the only thing your Para had that was Para was the serial number.

Yep...

Looks like a gun that my old friend Bob from Meridian built, which would make it a good one.

Cliff Cargill wrote:Yep...

Looks like a gun that my old friend Bob from Meridian built, which would make it a good one.

Yeah, I agree, sounds like Bob Griffin being Meridian and that time period. Griff was a Para guy (and a Master class shooter, too). He even built an STI and after giving it a try went back to his Para. If he did do the work on it and considering the rest of the details, it sounds like a really good price if it looks good in person and especially if you can put a few rounds through it and like the way it shoots. I would think you could shoot it for 6 months or a year (or longer) and get your money back out of it pretty easy if you wanted to for some reason.

Thanks guys. Gonna see if he will let me try it out. He is more interested in a trade for a flattop AR. Will ask him if it was Griffin and Will let yall know if I get it.

"The Para leftovers were filed in the circular bin for future use in Go-Green endeavors such as Port-a-Potty parts and Hi-Points."

Let me see if I can paraphrase what Cliff thinks about Para.....

Para = P.O.S.

I am the owner of the Para that BigDaddyQ is referring. It was built by Bob back in the early 2000's and I only ended up competing with it a few times due to various reasons. I bought the gun and Bob put everything together for me. I was hoping to be able to shoot like Griff and McKeiver but it just didn't happen. It's a sweet shooting gun but it's just not something I need in my safe right now.

sweet so it was Bob that built it. I was gonna text you tonight but got off work late and didn't think I'd bother you yet as I'm still on the fence. Do you know what all Bob did to it? I also am gonna be busy this weekend with memorial service for my Uncle who taught us all about fire arms, explosives, 4 wheel drives, muscle cars, and women. He passed away in his sleep unexpectedly this weekend and its been a shock. My brother is supposed to be coming home for it and bringing me the DPMS we were talking about. If you don't think that would be a good trade let me know and I'll tell him not to worry with bringing it on the plane. We are going to see him in next month anyway, Hopefully I'll make the match on sunday. It will feel good to do some shooting.