FBI invades wrong home, holds mother at gunpoint

Can see a lawsuit coming from a mile away.

http://news.yahoo.com/fbi-cuts-down-mass-moms-door-wrong-home-143434056.html

Man I'm telling ya...if someone kicks my door in....there's gonna need to be a whole lot more fixed than a door...I don't care who it is

NRAGuy, the guy you're talking about was a marine, and as I recall(this may be wrong) he was cleaning his guns and grabbed one in reaction to someone kicking in his door.

I'm with Neck, if someone kicks in my door it's gonna be ugly. I understand cops need to have the element of surprise when raiding or serving a warrant, but that's the risk that is taken when a door is kicked in without announcing they are Police first. But as Mr Clean has mentioned here before, that's a good way to get cops killed too, so it's just a bad situation no matter how you spin it

I'm with Neck, if someone kicks in my door it's gonna be ugly. I understand cops need to have the element of surprise when raiding or serving a warrant, but that's the risk that is taken when a door is kicked in without announcing they are Police first. But as Mr Clean has mentioned here before, that's a good way to get cops killed too, so it's just a bad situation no matter how you spin it

Ditto. that's why they need to start double, and triple checking their info to make SURE they have the right address! This is happening FAR too often now.

I understand the need for surprise, but how is someone supposed to know it's the police if they keep caring out these no-knock raids? I mean, this is a civilized country, not a warzone, and they're the police officers, not soldiers.

in this day and age alot of civilians have better "hardware" than leo's do. Kick the door in on joe blow america who happens to be well trained and stocked with a good AR and tons of ammo and you got a fire fight on your hands good enough for a hollywood movie.

And then Joe blow america ends up dead or in prison for something he didn't start or want. Police had better rethink their position on this, I can only see it getting worse. And like NRA-Guy says, the gangs could start using it to their advantage.
scott

back in the day gangs(real gangs) would announce themselfs as cops. think thats where the "show me your badge" came from? could be mistaken

Beladran wrote:back in the day gangs(real gangs) would announce themselfs as cops. think thats where the "show me your badge" came from? could be mistaken

WAY back in the day too. Think "St. Valentines Day Massacre". Of course that was thugs killing other thugs.

god the good ol days!! lol

The Agents were trying to do their job and made a mistake. They are not evil people. The lady needs to get over it. Stuff happens.

The real problem is prohibition. Period. The end. Drugs are bad, m'kay? That doesn't mean we need to sacrifice our freedoms that so many have died fighting to preserve. Drugs have been and will be around for thousands of years and you will never stop people from using them for religious, medical, or recreational reasons. Prohibition creates the black market. The black market creates gangs and crime. End prohibition and put the cartels and gangs out of business. They also won't have any need to go around kicking doors in over drug warrants. Hell, now they want to ban sugar! Then sugar will be a gateway drug since you will have to go to a drug dealer to get it. Sooooo silly!

Even if it was a mistake it is against the 4th ammendment. I would be pursuing a lawsuit for breaking and entering and/or illegal search and siezure. But, I would probably be dead in that situation.

Subsonix wrote:The Agents were trying to do their job and made a mistake. They are not evil people. The lady needs to get over it. Stuff happens.

With all due respect that "Stuff" is total BS, they apparently not only got the wrong
apartment, they chainsawed a way through her door, they and their agencies should
pay dearly and any of the LEO's on the raid should be summarily FIRED!!

Wow

It wasn't on purpose or grossly neglegent, they apologized, the property owner will be compensated for damages, nobody was hurt...

I don't understand the need for vengance. Jesus doesn't run the FBI, humans do. Americans are way too sue happy over accidents. Just look at how much money is spent on malpractice insurance! I wouldn't be happy if it happened to me, but I certainly wouldn't be in court about it whining about how traumatized my poodle is. (exaggeration, but you get my point)

I do agree that it might not have turned out so nice if it had happened at my house, scary thought! She got a brand new door and a criminal out of her apt. complex in trade. Sounds like a good deal to me.

Subsonix wrote:Wow

It wasn't on purpose or grossly neglegent, they apologized, the property owner will be compensated for damages, nobody was hurt...

Your wrong about that. It WAS grossly negligent. If they had done what they were supposed to, to find out where the right suspect lived, they wouldn't have chainsawed through this ladies door and held her at gunpoint with a kid in the house. Their target was right next door.

Truth is, we don't know the particulars and are guessing. A bad tip, a typo, any miscommunication could cause this. Coulda just been one Officer Doofus with his head up his rear. Why waste time and money in court? Like you said, they were right next door, not across town. That's the thing about the term "grossly neglegent". It's open to interpretation and everybody can have a different opinion.

To be clear, I'm not saying that there shouldn't be any diciplinary action. They screwed up, nobody is saying otherwise. I'm just feel that a lawsuit is excessive and wasteful. Besides, if she wins money in a suit, taxpayers ultimately pay for that and the legal fees.

Subsonix wrote:...the property owner will be compensated for damages, nobody was hurt...

Let's send her & her kid to a couple of headshrinkers and find out if they were "hurt". PTSD comes to mind, completely unwarranted PTSD at that. She and the kid will probably need therapy and/or medication for some period of time to ever feel safe or normal again even in their own home.

I lean towards some serious demotions of the decision-makers in that botched raid and some retraining ALL AROUND. If anyone else chainsawed a woman's door and threatened her life, they would be looking out for a lynching and facing serious jail time. Without a warrant or probable cause or at least a 911 call, an officer kicking down a door isn't much different from any other home invader.

Any judgement she wins in court should come directly from the offending agency's budget.

orangello wrote:

Subsonix wrote:...the property owner will be compensated for damages, nobody was hurt...

Let's send her & her kid to a couple of headshrinkers and find out if they were "hurt". PTSD comes to mind, completely unwarranted PTSD at that. She and the kid will probably need therapy and/or medication for some period of time to ever feel safe or normal again even in their own home.

I have been called insensitive before, maybe I am. Some people just have thinner skin, I guess. All I know is that I would feel guilty to receive monetary compensation for something so minor, so I wouldn't. To each his/her own.

jakeg823 wrote:NRAGuy, the guy you're talking about was a marine, and as I recall(this may be wrong) he was cleaning his guns and grabbed one in reaction to someone kicking in his door.

I'm with Neck, if someone kicks in my door it's gonna be ugly. I understand cops need to have the element of surprise when raiding or serving a warrant, but that's the risk that is taken when a door is kicked in without announcing they are Police first. But as Mr Clean has mentioned here before, that's a good way to get cops killed too, so it's just a bad situation no matter how you spin it

No, it was another no-knock warrant. He head a noise outside the home, told the wife and kids to hide, and grabbed his AR. The SWAT team then busted in with a no-knock warrant. To be fair to the SWAT team, five guys did manage to get off 71 rounds in 7 seconds, scoring 60 hits on the guy, so nice shooting there. I don't know if our SWAT teams are that skilled, but I dare say a similar fate would be in store for all of us saying they would start shooting when someone kicked in their door. Oh yeah, and since we would be dead, the police would get to drag your name through the mud, claiming things such as you shot first (since retracted in this case), and refusing to talk about the case. Oh yeah, and they made the EMTs wait an hour before getting to the guy.

This was a former Marine with no criminal record working graveyard shifts at a copper mine to support his family. His name was Jose Guerena.

Story from ABC: http://abcnews.go.com/US/tucson-swat-team-defends-shooting-iraq-marine-veteran/story?id=13640112#.TytIF_nC5eQ

Local paper: http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_d7d979d4-f4fb-5603-af76-0bef206f8301.html