New Guy question on 1911 Bull barrel Vs. Barrel brushing

Hey i picked up a colt series 80 1911 a couple months ago, and do to... lets say the dis-assembly learning curve the recoil spring was slightly bent, not enough to noticeably harm performance but enough to make me want to replace it. any way in my search for a good replacement i cam across the bull barrel reverse recoil spring set up and I love the look of it. I was wondering what the Pro/Cons of a the bull barrel over the traditional barrel and brushing. I read somewhere that it can cause some damage to the slide after so many 1000s of rounds, is there any truth to this?

I can't answer your question per sey....but I will say 2 things

1st - Series 80 was by no means Colts best work.....I still luv em but they had issues.

2nd - My personal preference is the old traditional barrel bushing just like JMB intended....that said I would not make the mod you suggested....but if you like it....go for it

As far as I'm concerned all the other full length guide rods etc is BS.....but I'm a traditionalist when it comes to 1911's.....Hell everyone oughta own one even if its just sits on the coffee table....

JMB was genius...It aint broke...and it don't need fixin

+1 on what Neck said, if it ain't broke don't fix it, the traditional
1911 platform has now functioned beautifully since JMB designed
it over a century ago though in the interest of full disclosure I do
own a Les Baer with a full length rod and after over 14 years its
never malfunctioned once so I'd take what you like best and I agree
100%, the Series 80 is a sad "improvement" on JMB's design
but the one I have is based on a a pre '80 platform and doesn't
use the reverse captive spring plug idea. I tried the reverse plug
dual spring within a spring in the mid 1990s with a series 80
officers model with a 3 inch barrel mostly to replace the fragile
spring plug tag that would break at the drop of a hat rendering
the gun totally useless and since it was a CCW carry gun, I sure
didn't want it to lock up in a bad situation so I traded it once
I found that either way, I couldn't keep it from jamming.

Welcome..I tell everyone joining there is some good info/advise/opinions on this site.
Didn't take long for you to get some!

Can't help you with your question but
Welcome to MSGO from Brandon!!!

Don't have any reasonable input on your question other than the 1911 is a great design and as an old man told me when I was young " If it aint broke don't fix it ".

well guess im the only one here thats gonna say get the bull barrel.

Welcome Aboard

Welcome to the forum!

I would stick with a regular barrel,standard guide rod and barrel bushing. Don't see the need to change from what works.

Wayne Novack, gunsmith and designer of Novack sights said full length guide rods do 3 things. "Make the gun harder to take apart, change the point of impact and make money for the guy who sells them." You won't find any of the custom gun makers that say full length guide rods improve accuracy they just put them in as a standard feature or as an option on their guns because everyone thinks they need it.

from a fellow 1911A1 owner. I wouldn't change a thing on my pistol. I love it just the way it is (Auto Ordinance Military version).

I vote to keep it stock and reliable. If you want a pistol with feeding and ejection problems, start by adding doo dads that look cool.

Wolf springs are the standard, buy a new one here

http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%20Pistols/COLT/1911%20GOV'T%20PISTOL/cID1/mID1/dID1#3

Just to make sure you know, going from a stock barrel and bushing to a bull barrel is not a drop in procedure (or should not be). Actually, even switching from one bushing barrel to another is not a drop in operation and should be done by a good gunsmith who understands proper timing of a 1911.

In a 1911, as the slide moves forward the barrel link forces the barrel to cam upward so that the locking lugs on the barrel hood mesh with the recesses in the slide. Making sure that the barrel and barrel link are properly sized for proper lug engagement will help with accuracy and prevent shearing of the lugs. Improperly fit barrels start developing small cracks around the corners of the lugs, around the link connection, or the edges of the lugs themselves start to radius from wear and will not lock up tight.

I like a bull barrel and I run a full length tungsten guide rode because the added weight out front seems to help control recoil. I've never heard anyone say that a properly fit bull barrel does damage to the slide. It's the most common setup in USPSA for both Open and Limited and it's very common for those guys to put 10K or more rounds through their guns per year. I know of several shooters who have 100K or more and their guns are still running just fine.

It's a good setup if you have it done right... but like most things, a poor installer can screw up the greatest of systems.

Welcome

clawgun89 wrote:Hey i picked up a colt series 80 1911 a couple months ago, and do to... lets say the dis-assembly learning curve the recoil spring was slightly bent, not enough to noticeably harm performance but enough to make me want to replace it. any way in my search for a good replacement i cam across the bull barrel reverse recoil spring set up and I love the look of it. I was wondering what the Pro/Cons of a the bull barrel over the traditional barrel and brushing. I read somewhere that it can cause some damage to the slide after so many 1000s of rounds, is there any truth to this?

Just adding to the posts above and trying to further answer the questions posed:

A properly fit barrel of either type, bull or bushing, should not damage the slide at all. If it is unlocking too soon, either type can roll the upper lugs, but this is improper fit and not design. As for the two barrel types:

Bushing:
-Generally a little cheaper because they use less metal and are easier to machine being completely straight forward of the chamber and lugs.
-Somewhat easier to fit because the bushing is a separate piece and can be fit separately or replaced. In theory you could fit a larger bushing to tighten up a fit, but if fit right from the beginning you will probably shoot the barrel out before this is needed.
-Lighter (which can be good or bad). Good for carrying or making a gun light, also the weight of the barrel does affect unlocking of the gun.
-Does require another piece and, although rare with today's good quality bushings, they can break. I have seen it, but it was on a cheap 1911 with a cheap factory bushing. It was an easy and relatively cheap fix.
-Technically introduces another tolerance into the gun, i.e. barrel to bushing AND bushing to slide, rather than just barrel to slide. However, if fit properly this isn't an issue. However, if really tight to minimum tolerances, it may require a bushing wrench to take down.

Bull:
-No bushing wrench needed, although a paperclip or small tool may be needed if used with a full length guiderod unless a "toolless" guiderod is used. See below.
-Heavier which slows unlocking slightly. All other variables being equal, you could run a very slightly lighter slide with a bull barrel and get the benefit of faster and less high speed reciprocating mass.
-More weight at the front of the barrel for better recoil control, at least in theory.
-Slightly more difficult to fit, and if there is a problem, you replace the whole barrel or, less often, the slide which are of course large and expensive parts.
-Slightly more expensive because harder to machine
-Arguably a "cleaner" look without the bushing on the front of the gun
-Non-traditional

If properly fit and properly made, neither should have an accuracy advantage over the other.

As to reverse plugs, note that there are at least two different types of reverse plugs, "shoulder"/"collar" and the "flange"/"step" type, and I believe both require machining or cutting the slide.

I prefer and have only used the shoulder type, which is seamless and has no corners or places likely for a crack to form so at least in theory should be he stronger of the two. The slide must be cut or machined for this type of plug. You can look at the underside of your spring tunnel with the slide off the gun to see is there a cut for the shoulder:


The "flange", as far as I know, also requires cutting the slide so that the slide stroke isn't shortened. The downsides are corners for cracks to develop, both on the plug and on the slide, and the fact that the plug head becomes the stopping surface for the slide and takes a pounding. I know Caspian, a well respected maker of 1911 slides and frames, does not recommend this type and it "may void the warranty" if one of their slides is cut for this type plug and has a problem. Meanwhile, they offer the shoulder/collar cut on their slides for about $20: Anyway, a flange plug:


A full length guide rod will require a tool, typically a paperclip or small piece of wire (I have a few made from old pieces of magazine spring that work great) to get the rod and spring out of the slide. Dawson Precision makes a really nice toolless setup as mentioned above. They are expensive but really nice. I don't have one but know a few folks that do and haven't heard of any issues. Here is a good picture of one in use. Without the clever design, imagine a small piece of paperclip bent into an "L" with the short part in a hole in the guiderod performing the same function as pictured:


One last thought about the Series 80 stuff. If you ever want to or feel the need, you can get a shim that will allow you to remove the series 80 parts. This one is made by TJ's Custom and costs $5:

Basically it fills the gap where the "Colt Series '80 Firing Pin Block Actuating Lever" sits. By removing it, you can get a better trigger pull and get rid of some twinky little parts inside your gun. These twinky parts do make up a firing pin block safety, but it takes a very significant drop for the pin to overcome the firing pin spring anyway as I understand it.

2/4/12

and to MSGO! Enjoy - and you will - as you can probably tell by now from all of the responses to your OP