Inconsistent COL

Can you guys help me out.

Fairly new to reloading and using a Hornady L N L. I've loaded a couple thousands rounds and they are shooting well. I had been reloading only my once shot commercial ammo but have ventured out into some range ammo.

Been reloading 9 mm 147 RN FMJ Precision Delta. Trying to achieve a 1.160" COL. Half the time I do but the other time I get 1.1.63-1.172 or so. I'm using the same pull pressure, etc. The die is not moving. I even checked the case lengths and they are all around .744 in length.

I can do ten and get correct length and the next ten may be long. I put the long ones back throughout the die without changing anything and they then are about correct.

Any ideas or suggestions of what I am doing wrong are appreciated.

Thanks.

MK

Interesting question...for which I have no answer at the moment...I don't use a progressive nor the LNL

first off...I've never been that anal about OAL on pistol ammo

If its revolver...if it chambers... it shoots...on 9mm I take my barrel out and if they drop in good and load and feed in the mag...then I move on...Wilson makes max cartridge gauges that do the same thing

To me its no doubt in my mind its your brass....if its mixed range brass who knows...maybe the case mouths are not belled enough on the first go around....

I'm still mulling on it....

I'd sort my brass by headstamp...does the problem follow with a certain kind.

whose to say the Precision Delta bullets are all the same length anyway ? Do they have a cannelure or crimp groove...some do some dont...


Again I've never seen the need to measure thousands of an inch coal on a pistol round.....precision rifle yeah...totally different deal there

Thanks for the reply.

I'm learning about headstamps...I now throw out "PMC" brass since the majority of those reload with a fold a third of the way down. So i chunk them and not waste a primer.

The long COL reloads are a variety of brass so I can't make just one a culprit.

There is something causing inconsistency from pull to pull. I don't mind a 2-3 thousands of an inch difference but I do think COL in a pistol reload is very important so you don't get an over pressured round and do damage to gun or person.

I need to check my shell holder and make sure it is stable.

Thanks for replying.

U don't have all that much pressure in a 9mm round in my opinion...I would not worry about a few thou length...be more worried about a double charge


what powder u using and what charge...

9 mm headspaces on the case mouth

what is this "fold" a third of the way down...post a picture

Again I remove my Glock barrel and drop em in...the case head should be flush with the barrel hood

When I have trouble with 9mm...its usually trouble with crimp...or not enough crimp....use a taper crimp on 9mm

Some of the LNL's have an issue with the sub plate "rocking", assuming you've checked all the dies and components.. It can be fixed by shimming.


http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/349532_Hornady_OAL_issue_fixed_.html&page=1

Measure the bullet diameters. Had a similar case with cheap 158 grs. RN for the .357mag. The bullets had weight differences of more than 6 grains and showed different diameters and that caused in my case different COL´s. Check out the length of the bullets too. Maybe this can help, if not forget it.

Gebirgsjaeger wrote:Measure the bullet diameters. Had a similar case with cheap 158 grs. RN for the .357mag. The bullets had weight differences of more than 6 grains and showed different diameters and that caused in my case different COL´s. Check out the length of the bullets too. Maybe this can help, if not forget it.

Some good posts and info from the responses , but I particularly agree with this one. Between very slight bullet differences in length and/or diameter, how much you bell the case and the angle of the bell, and slop in the press, there will be some variance. I would look into the shimming situation mentioned by Miker84. I am not a LNL user and was not aware of that.

For what it's worth, I load Precision Delta's on two different Dillon machines, a 550 and a Super 1050, in .40 and other pistol calibers and accept about 5-8 thousandths variance in OAL. The accuracy has been fine and is really better than I need. If I was really going for extreme accuracy, I probably would shoot something else but I also would use one brand of brass rather than mixed and try a few other tricks.

Thanks for everyone's interest.

I will check the bullets for consistenty but I thought PD bullets were suppose to be the cat's meow for sameness.

One other thing I will try that I gleamed from Miker's post is for bullets to be consistent AOL all 5 positions on the press need a case in place. I will try that. Also, will take my Hornady seat/crimp die apart and make sure nothing is in there causing problems.

Bryant, I think your suggestion that different brass may be the problem has merit as well.

If still having problems will call Hornady.

Thanks.

This "fold a third the way down" leads me to believe that you may be using a roll crimp die on a FMJ and possibly compressing the case. I have never loaded a 9mm in my time, though have loaded a small boat load of .45 acp and others. If you are in fact crimping, and the slight variation concerns you I might would use a taper crimp die if you are not. A picture would be helpful as Redneck mentioned.

Things have gotten better since I started having a case in each station. But still go from 1.153 to 1.164 or so with the majority being about right at 1.160 +/- .004. I'm starting to think it may be the variety of cases.

I'm using Hornady Dimension dies which is a combo crimp and seating die. I have the cupped seating stem in place. They send a flat one as well. I shoot for a .378 crimp but can't get it over .374 no matter how much i screw it out.

I did barrel check everything and they look ok. Also, loaded up a mag and chambered them without problems.

I may be making a mountain out of a mole hill just trying to be exact.

My rounds have been shooting well and I had much better consistency when using my once shot ammo that is Sellier and Belliot. This problem reared when using mixed brass.

The picture shows the "folds". (Obviously, I already removed the bullets.) This mainly happens with PMC cases which I have started to discard. By the way I only had 4-5 of these in 800 rounds.

For what its worth, I'm using the Lee dies with a separate crimp die.

The pursuit of exactness is part of reloading, however, you have to control all the variables to get there. I'm loading up some 223 for a carbine class right now. Shooting for 2.20 and I'm getting 2.190 to 2.22 using mixed range brass and surplus pulled projectiles. My gun doesn't seem to care. If I were loading for match grade long distance, I'd most likely measure and weigh all my brass and projectiles to get them as close to the same as possible.

Are you flaring the brass at all?

Yes, there is a bell die or I wouldn't be able to get the bullet started.

I use a Lee resizing and depraver die in the first slot, Hornady bell die in second, Powder measure in third, powder check in four and Hornady seater/crimper in five.

Sorry, I meant deprimer. Auto spell check changed. Computer may be depraved.

MickeyK wrote:Sorry, I meant deprimer. Auto spell check changed. Computer may be depraved.

MickeyK wrote:I'm using Hornady Dimension dies which is a combo crimp and seating die. I have the cupped seating stem in place. They send a flat one as well. I shoot for a .378 crimp but can't get it over .374 no matter how much i screw it out.

The combination seat/crimp die could be part of the variance. The heavier the crimp applied the more exaggerated this effect, and I am not sure why you aren't able to get "less crimp" than .374. You may not want to change anything since your ammo is working and taking a bunch of steps may still leave you with several thousandth's variation. However, I prefer crimping in a separate step after seating and use very little crimp, just enought to lay the brass back beside the bullet basically. Although my favorite seating die is the Redding Competition seater, they are expensive and really not necessary: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/126941/redding-competition-seater-die-9mm-luger.

The standard Redding seater is also very good: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/720594/redding-pro-series-seater-die-9mm-luger and I have a Hornady I have used with good results too, but I don't believe it has the crimping feature mentioned in this one: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/255580/hornady-custom-grade-new-dimension-seater-die-9mm-luger-380-acp-38-super. I guess it could and I am just not using it.

For a crimping die, the Lee Factory Crimp dies are hard to beat based on price and performance, especially if you are just looking for reliable ammo: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/557190/lee-carbide-factory-crimp-die-9mm-luger

I've never heard of particular problems with PMC brass. That is strange.

I appreciate the work you put into your post Bryant and will look at your options.

One of the reasons I got the Hornady was for the five die positions so I could have a lock out powder check which I really like. If I were to go to separate crimp and seating dies I would lose the option of having the powder check.

I'm fairly new to reloading I think there is a bell die that works through the powder measure that then would allow a separate crimp and seat I just haven't investigated it enough.

Another possibility is that I do not have the Hornady seat/crimp die adjusted correctly.

Thanks for your reply.

mk

There is a die that Hornady makes for belling in the powder drop. There is a different one for each caliber. It allows me to run.

1. Decrimp/size
2. Powder
3. Powder Cop
4. Seat
5. Crimp

miker84 wrote:There is a die that Hornady makes for belling in the powder drop. There is a different one for each caliber. It allows me to run.

1. Decrimp/size
2. Powder
3. Powder Cop
4. Seat
5. Crimp

There you go. That would be the ticket. I was just about to say that a Dillon 550 only has 4 stations but could do what you describe because it bells and drops powder in the same station, so you could run a powder check if you used a combo seat/crimp like you use. I never did, instead setting up an adjustable desk light on the bench shining down into the case and I visually look at the powder charge before seating a bullet.

I had a powder check die briefly on my 1050 and liked the idea of it, but I have it up when I added a bullet feeder. I haven't missed it and much prefer the bullet feeder. Still have the light set up, so I look in the cases and crank the handle.

Appreciate the ideas Bryant and Miker. Before I buy more dies I may give Hornady a call and see if they can give some pointers on the seating/crimp die.

I have found out reloading does not save money. I could buy 9 mm ammo for the rest of my life for what I have in reloading components at present but as I do more competitive shooting I realize "customized" ammo sure is nice.

Also, as per someone's suggestion I did measure a few of my bullet lengths and there is some slight variation in them as well.