Concealed Carry in a posted building in Mississippi

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Concealed Carry in a posted building in Mississippi

Post by dpayne on Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:42 pm

Ok everyone, I've tried to search and couldn't find what I was looking for quickly so I'm starting a new thread.

This weekend I was carrying as normal and not drinking or anything. It wasn't until we were leaving that I noticed the no firearms sign on the entrance to the business I was in. Granted, no one spotted my LC9 and it was concealed very well I still broke the law unintentionally. Normally I do not go into posted businesses or I disarm and lock it up in my truck prior to entrance (what a pain).

My question is what is the penalty and charge if I would have been "made"? I have a regular Firearms Permit w/out the enhanced sticker.

My understanding is with the enhanced permit I would be asked to leave (which I would) or face a trespass charge. Is this correct?

What about us who have not gotten "enhanced" yet? What would I have faced if I was "made"?

Stupid error on my part, I should have noticed the sign, but I didn't.

Sorry in advance if this has been asked previously.

Thanks.

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Re: Concealed Carry in a posted building in Mississippi

Post by mississipvol on Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:48 pm

I did the same thing recently so I would love to know the answer as well.

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Re: Concealed Carry in a posted building in Mississippi

Post by bigun220 on Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:51 pm

If the sign is valid, you could be charged with illegally carrying a concealed pistol (misdemeanor) since you don't have the IC sticker. See 97-37-1. If you are "made" by the owner, you might just be asked to leave.

As far as i know, you can carry in locations with no-gun signs with the IC sticker until you are asked to leave. Otherwise, you could face trespassing charges.

Hope this helps.

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Re: Concealed Carry in a posted building in Mississippi

Post by dpayne on Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:54 pm

bigun220 wrote:If the sign is valid, you could be charged with illegally carrying a concealed pistol (misdemeanor) since you don't have the IC sticker. See 97-37-1. If you are "made" by the owner, you might just be asked to leave.

As far as i know, you can carry in locations with no-gun signs with the IC sticker until you are asked to leave. Otherwise, you could face trespassing charges.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the reply. Looks like I need to schedule my class for the IC sticker to avoid this issue in the future. I don't want to contribute to the media frenzy with a CCW holder being charged for "breaking the law."

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Re: Concealed Carry in a posted building in Mississippi

Post by jakeg823 on Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:30 am

Was it a proper sign as specified by the law or was it a gun with a slash through it? The latter is not legal is why I ask. The law in MS is VERY clear about what the sign should say

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Re: Concealed Carry in a posted building in Mississippi

Post by jbpmidas on Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:45 am

To my understanding, the IC sticker does not allow you to carry into a posted business. The posted business is an ownership decision and the IC sticker does not override their decision.

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Re: Concealed Carry in a posted building in Mississippi

Post by mississipvol on Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:30 am

jbpmidas wrote:To my understanding, the IC sticker does not allow you to carry into a posted business. The posted business is an ownership decision and the IC sticker does not override their decision.

The way the law is written it sure seems that the IC allows you to. The law regarding the enhanced sticker says that you can carry in all places previously prohibited and then lists a couple places you can't carry such as a court in session. My LEO friend said it would allow me to take it anywhere but a law enforcement agency or court in session.

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Re: Concealed Carry in a posted building in Mississippi

Post by miker84 on Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:44 am

jbpmidas wrote:To my understanding, the IC sticker does not allow you to carry into a posted business. The posted business is an ownership decision and the IC sticker does not override their decision.

The opinion among all I've spoken to is that if the sign is valid, the IC sticker doesn't trump the property owner's rights, but it keeps you from getting charged with a trespass.

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Re: Concealed Carry in a posted building in Mississippi

Post by senilking on Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:58 am

miker84 wrote:
jbpmidas wrote:To my understanding, the IC sticker does not allow you to carry into a posted business. The posted business is an ownership decision and the IC sticker does not override their decision.

The opinion among all I've spoken to is that if the sign is valid, the IC sticker doesn't trump the property owner's rights, but it keeps you from getting charged with a trespass.

I not only agree with this opinion, I support it. I would rather be able to forbid someone from bringing one on my land if I wanted to.

Edit. Wait, I'm not sure now. If someone brings something not illegal onto your property when you told them not to, but invited them without knowing they had it, should you be able to charge them with trespassing?

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Re: Concealed Carry in a posted building in Mississippi

Post by mississipvol on Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:16 am

Here is the law as written:

A person licensed under Section 45-9-101 to carry a concealed pistol, who has voluntarily completed an instructional course in the safe handling and use of firearms offered by an instructor certified by a nationally recognized organization that customarily offers firearms training, or by any other organization approved by the Department of Public Safety, shall also be authorized to carry weapons in courthouses except in courtrooms during a judicial proceeding, and any location listed in subsection (13) of Section 45-9-101, except any place of nuisance as defined in Section 95-3-1, any police, sheriff or highway patrol station or any detention facility, prison or jail.

The underlined wording is what I referred to. It clearly says that you are allowed to carry in places with a posted sign (that is one of the places listed in section 45-9-101). However, if I was carrying in one of those places and the owner came up to me and asked me to leave because someone had seen me print, then I would leave without argument because then I would be treading on another law potentially - tresspassing.

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Re: Concealed Carry in a posted building in Mississippi

Post by southernfire97 on Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:09 pm

Well we had this same "discussion" the other day on another forum and I was told by an NRA approved instructor that you were indeed allowed to carry in a posted building WITH an enhanced carry.

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Re: Concealed Carry in a posted building in Mississippi

Post by vblackwell on Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:27 pm

mississipvol wrote: The underlined wording is what I referred to. It clearly says that you are allowed to carry in places with a posted sign (that is one of the places listed in section 45-9-101). However, if I was carrying in one of those places and the owner came up to me and asked me to leave because someone had seen me print, then I would leave without argument because then I would be treading on another law potentially - tresspassing.
I agree 100%.

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Re: Concealed Carry in a posted building in Mississippi

Post by savageshooter on Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:26 pm

http://safefireshooting.com/MS_Concealed_Carry.html

got this from laws section on msgo. it is real clear what you can do and not do with a ic.

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Re: Concealed Carry in a posted building in Mississippi

Post by YowLaw on Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:05 am

You might want to get the instructor to put that in writing and provide you with a copy of his professional liability policy, so you can sue him in the event that you are arrested and prosecuted for criminal trespassing.

We have a case now where retired veteran was arrested after his concealed firearm was noticed by security. Building was clearly posted, but veteran walked past the sign because his instructor told him that he could now ignore signs. Plaintiff was arrested with his family present. Pretty traumatic for the grandchildren seeing their grandpa get arrested, but the state cannot take away the right of a business owner who wants to exclude firearms.



southernfire97 wrote:Well we had this same "discussion" the other day on another forum and I was told by an NRA approved instructor that you were indeed allowed to carry in a posted building WITH an enhanced carry.

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Re: Concealed Carry in a posted building in Mississippi

Post by miker84 on Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:31 am

I think that is the question Nathan, does the IC prevent you from being arrested for trespassing ? In other words, you still have to leave if asked, but it isn't as serious.

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Re: Concealed Carry in a posted building in Mississippi

Post by cdwolf on Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:07 am

YowLaw wrote:You might want to get the instructor to put that in writing and provide you with a copy of his professional liability policy, so you can sue him in the event that you are arrested and prosecuted for criminal trespassing.

We have a case now where retired veteran was arrested after his concealed firearm was noticed by security. Building was clearly posted, but veteran walked past the sign because his instructor told him that he could now ignore signs. Plaintiff was arrested with his family present. Pretty traumatic for the grandchildren seeing their grandpa get arrested, but the state cannot take away the right of a business owner who wants to exclude firearms.



southernfire97 wrote:Well we had this same "discussion" the other day on another forum and I was told by an NRA approved instructor that you were indeed allowed to carry in a posted building WITH an enhanced carry.
Was he asked to leave, or just arrested?

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Re: Concealed Carry in a posted building in Mississippi

Post by YowLaw on Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:17 am

If the building was properly posted, the IC endorsement won't help you on private property. The biggest thing to remember that with the IC endorsement, you are not a police officer and still have restrictions. There is no duty for the property owner to ask you to leave because an IC permit holder is trespassing when they walk past a properly posted sign. A prudent business owner will allow you to carry a firearm in their business, but if they restrict firearms and properly post notices, take your business elsewhere.






miker84 wrote:I think that is the question Nathan, does the IC prevent you from being arrested for trespassing ? In other words, you still have to leave if asked, but it isn't as serious.

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Re: Concealed Carry in a posted building in Mississippi

Post by YowLaw on Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:25 am

He was asked by unarmed security if he was law enforcement. Plaintiff stated that he was not law enforcement, but showed him IC endorsement and stated that he could carry a gun on their property. Security walked away and called police. Plaintiff went on with his business and police showed up and took him away. According to witnesses, he was not asked to leave prior to calling the police. Although asking him to leave would have been a better business decision, the business had no legal requirement to ask permit holder to leave because he was trespassing.



cdwolf wrote:
YowLaw wrote:You might want to get the instructor to put that in writing and provide you with a copy of his professional liability policy, so you can sue him in the event that you are arrested and prosecuted for criminal trespassing.

We have a case now where retired veteran was arrested after his concealed firearm was noticed by security. Building was clearly posted, but veteran walked past the sign because his instructor told him that he could now ignore signs. Plaintiff was arrested with his family present. Pretty traumatic for the grandchildren seeing their grandpa get arrested, but the state cannot take away the right of a business owner who wants to exclude firearms.



southernfire97 wrote:Well we had this same "discussion" the other day on another forum and I was told by an NRA approved instructor that you were indeed allowed to carry in a posted building WITH an enhanced carry.
Was he asked to leave, or just arrested?

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Re: Concealed Carry in a posted building in Mississippi

Post by sigma74216 on Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:41 am

YowLaw wrote:

We have a case now where retired veteran was arrested after his concealed firearm was noticed by security. Building was clearly posted, but veteran walked past the sign because his instructor told him that he could now ignore signs. Plaintiff was arrested with his family present. Pretty traumatic for the grandchildren seeing their grandpa get arrested, but the state cannot take away the right of a business owner who wants to exclude firearms.
[/quote]

Let us know how this turns out.
The way the law reads it is ok to carry with IC permit.
Is he charged with trespassing or carrying a concealed weapon?
We all know some LEO's do not know the laws like they should so just because he was arrested doesn't mean he should have been.
Yes the property owner/manager can tell you to leave but if the law says you can carry there, then until your told to leave your not breaking any laws.

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Re: Concealed Carry in a posted building in Mississippi

Post by cwink on Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:50 am

YowLaw wrote:You might want to get the instructor to put that in writing and provide you with a copy of his professional liability policy, so you can sue him in the event that you are arrested and prosecuted for criminal trespassing.

We have a case now where retired veteran was arrested after his concealed firearm was noticed by security. Building was clearly posted, but veteran walked past the sign because his instructor told him that he could now ignore signs. Plaintiff was arrested with his family present. Pretty traumatic for the grandchildren seeing their grandpa get arrested, but the state cannot take away the right of a business owner who wants to exclude firearms.



southernfire97 wrote:Well we had this same "discussion" the other day on another forum and I was told by an NRA approved instructor that you were indeed allowed to carry in a posted building WITH an enhanced carry.

You note that right below that on my site, I put

"This is a general description of where you can and can not carry under MS Laws. Please see the link to the MS Firearms Permit Unit on the left side of this page to access all the current legal information"

I tell all my students that they should respect the wishes of the property owner, and that if you find a situtation where you come accross this sign, to take off your firearm and walk inside and tell the owner that you would love to be a customer of thiers but your not willing to risk your life on it and walk out. There are a lot of gray ares in this new law and there is no case law on the books on how this decision will go. I do not want to be the test case..

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