Open Carry Restrictions

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Re: Open Carry Restrictions

Post by 94LEVERFAN on Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:46 am

confederado wrote:

I’d expect that all it will take is someone attempting to enter a location open carrying that would normally only allow a concealed weapon under enhanced carry and signage like this will start to appear.

Where is this at? Will add to my list of places NOT TO PATRONIZE.

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Re: Open Carry Restrictions

Post by MrsHighBrass on Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:44 am

94LEVERFAN wrote:
confederado wrote:
I’d expect that all it will take is someone attempting to enter a location open carrying that would normally only allow a concealed weapon under enhanced carry and signage like this will start to appear.

Where is this at? Will add to my list of places NOT TO PATRONIZE.

Looks like it's in Ohio (see verbiage at bottom of sign).

I really hope these don't start popping up around here.

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Re: Open Carry Restrictions

Post by TippersDad on Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:57 am

Sluggo wrote:The problem is with the wording. You could be "in a bar" or someplace like the Outback Steakhouse that has a bar and not be drinking at all. For example, my father-in-law has never even tasted alcohol yet we had to sit in the bar at Applebee’s to eat because it was so crowded. Also, some people work in bars and may need a pistol.

An overzealous officer could theoretically arrest someone like this under the letter of the law. If they reinstate the law it should be re-worded to make it illegal to carry concealed if you are DRINKING. Not just because you are some place where you have access to alcohol.

Common sense should kick in and make someone realize that if you possess a cc permit, drinking while carrying is a very stupid thing.
I don't have a problem carrying in a bar, but when alcohol touches your lips it's already past the time to walk out to your vehicle and lock her up.
There's too many people just waiting to point a finger and blow ANYTHING out of proportion.
They don't like your cc permit and will use any incident to throw fuel on the fire.

Maybe a little OT, so take it for what it's worth.

Just 2 cents from someone who has graced the inside of a large number of bars.
Although I can count on one hand, the number I've visited in MS.

As an aside, in the vast majority of bars North of lets say KY, there is a different "feel" to them.
People tend to socialize more than in the South.
In Southern states, there is that redneck faction that kicks in.




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Re: Open Carry Restrictions

Post by Q-Tip on Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:30 pm

confederado wrote:

I’d expect that all it will take is someone attempting to enter a location open carrying that would normally only allow a concealed weapon under enhanced carry and signage like this will start to appear.

Those signs (with correct MS verbiage) would still not hold weight of law for an OCer, and would only warrant a trespassing charge if someone did not leave when asked. Not that anyone should OC past such a sign instead of going to a more welcoming place of business.

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Re: Open Carry Restrictions

Post by fredfredfred on Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:38 pm

Funny thing about bars and drinking. I had a friend that went out to his truck to get a pack of smokes, when he opened his door to his truck he had a pistol pushed into his back, they robbed him, stole his truck and locked him in the trunk of a car. I'm pretty sure he would argue that carrying a pistol in a bar is not only necessary but preferred.

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Re: Open Carry Restrictions

Post by 94LEVERFAN on Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:19 am

fredfredfred wrote:Funny thing about bars and drinking. I had a friend that went out to his truck to get a pack of smokes, when he opened his door to his truck he had a pistol pushed into his back, they robbed him, stole his truck and locked him in the trunk of a car. I'm pretty sure he would argue that carrying a pistol in a bar is not only necessary but preferred.

I agree with your friend.

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Re: Open Carry Restrictions

Post by jethro13 on Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:48 am

As far as in a bar goes, I judge my objective there. If I am with friends and we are going to be drinking a good bit and partying, then it would be wise not to have it. But if I am there with my fiance and friends and only having a drink or two and a bite to eat. then having it is logical in my opinion.

It is a decision that each person has to make for themselves. You also have to know yourself and be honest with yourself about what you are doing and the kind of person you are.

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Re: Open Carry Restrictions

Post by Cliff Cargill on Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:18 am

More signs will go up.

I owned bars and nightclubs for 9 years. The last thing the immature 20-something guys needed was a gun strapped on. Businesses have a right to decide who comes into their establishment, and if firearms are allowed.

A recurring theme can be see in those YouTube oc vids. Always an immature young male in his early 20's who conviently has mommy or daddy to help argue with the police.

How weak.

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Re: Open Carry Restrictions

Post by Sluggo on Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:04 am

The Bill of Rights is a list of things that THE GOVERNMENT is not supposed to have the power to control. It was never intended to apply to private property. For example, the First Amendment guarantees you the right to free speech. This does not mean that the local theater can't kick you out for exercising free speech when others are trying to hear.

Your rights end at the door.

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Re: Open Carry Restrictions

Post by jethro13 on Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:39 pm

I get the private property argument and agree that the owner of said business has the right to say no weapons. but that business is within the state of MS and has to follow the MS laws.

I know it is a stretch, but could this be argued in a court.

I do agree that he/she could ask me to leave b/c they dont like the color shirt I have on and I would have to prove they kicked me out for legally carrying a gun.

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Re: Open Carry Restrictions

Post by Sluggo on Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:49 pm

I used to work the door at a bar and we did not let men in who were wearing tank tops or sleeveless shirts. It was not a law but a house rule. However, that rule was backed by the force of law.

We once had an idiot take his jacket off revealing a tank top. When asked he refused to put his jacket back on. I told him to leave, and if he refused I would have him charged with trespassing and see to it that charges of public intoxication and disorderly conduct would be tacked on for good measure. Long story short, he left.

A rule against carrying a pistol would be no different. The owner has every right to prohibit anything he wants on his property, even if it is something like a tank top that is not forbidden by law.

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Re: Open Carry Restrictions

Post by 94LEVERFAN on Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:13 pm

Cliff Cargill wrote:More signs will go up.

I owned bars and nightclubs for 9 years. The last thing the immature 20-something guys needed was a gun strapped on. Businesses have a right to decide who comes into their establishment, and if firearms are allowed.

A recurring theme can be see in those YouTube oc vids. Always an immature young male in his early 20's who conviently has mommy or daddy to help argue with the police.

How weak.

Well said, Cliff.
That being said, I am 55 now and no longer 20. Have had LOTS of practice patronizing different establishments over the years. When 20-something, had to go to the truck to retreive a firearm, but hell, when I was 20-something, I usually didn't have to go to the truck. Could usually hold my own pretty well. Not nearly as stupid as I was at 20, but don't put up with nearly as much chit either. Go to my regular dives where I feel comfortable. Most of the ones I frequent are firearm friendly, tho not advertised as such.

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Re: Open Carry Restrictions

Post by fredfredfred on Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:31 am

Following the line of logic that it's my property, I decide who can carry a gun on it, I am curious how this applies to off duty law enforcment. I mean if they are not in a " official " capacity, out eating or shopping, then to me, the same logic would apply to them.

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Re: Open Carry Restrictions

Post by bubbat on Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:50 am

fredfredfred wrote:Following the line of logic that it's my property, I decide who can carry a gun on it, I am curious how this applies to off duty law enforcment. I mean if they are not in a " official " capacity, out eating or shopping, then to me, the same logic would apply to them.

Probably would not apply to them, they don't stop being an LEO just because they off the clock. Some departments require they carry at all times on duty or not.

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Re: Open Carry Restrictions

Post by fredfredfred on Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:25 am

but if it's my property and I have not called them ? Business do have the right to serve who they want correct ? What if a business owner does not want to serve to anyone that carries a gun, period, where does the law saw that they trump owners rights ? Especially when there is no law being investigated or broken ?

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Re: Open Carry Restrictions

Post by TheGreatGonzo on Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:50 am

State law is going to vary, but generally speaking, a property owner can refuse to provide service to an off-duty LEO who is armed. For example, the GA Aquarium in Atlanta uses magnetometers for screening and does not permit off-duty LEOs to carry firearms. They provide lockboxes. Six Flags amusement parks are the same way. They do not permit off-duty law enforcement officers to carry firearms in their parks. I am aware of a few entertainments venues in other states/cities (concert halls; sports arenas, etc) that have the same rules. While it will depend, in the end, on state law, it is not at all uncommon.
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Re: Open Carry Restrictions

Post by bubbat on Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:53 am

There were some on duty plain clothes officers refused service at a Buffalo Wild Wings in Va. last week, a Denny's in Ill. did it to last year. They both caught hell for it.
I would think only a person who has problems with police officers would deny them service because they had a firearm.

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Re: Open Carry Restrictions

Post by TheGreatGonzo on Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:56 am

bubbat wrote:There were some on duty plain clothes officers refused service at a Buffalo Wild Wings in Va. last week, a Denny's in Ill. did it to last year. They both caught hell for it.
I would think only a person who has problems with police officers would deny them service because they had a firearm.

That news article was not very clear. It referred to them as "plain clothes officers" at one point, but later seemed to infer they were off-duty. That makes a difference. In one case they would be private citizens carrying firearms, in another they would have been LEOs in the performance of their official duties (yes, we are allowed to eat, go the bathroom, burp/fart, and otherwise be human while on duty). I never saw any clarification beyond the initial article.
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Re: Open Carry Restrictions

Post by bubbat on Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:01 am

TheGreatGonzo wrote:
bubbat wrote:There were some on duty plain clothes officers refused service at a Buffalo Wild Wings in Va. last week, a Denny's in Ill. did it to last year. They both caught hell for it.
I would think only a person who has problems with police officers would deny them service because they had a firearm.

That news article was not very clear. It referred to them as "plain clothes officers" at one point, but later seemed to infer they were off-duty. That makes a difference. In one case they would be private citizens carrying firearms, in another they would have been LEOs in the performance of their official duties (yes, we are allowed to eat, go the bathroom, burp/fart, and otherwise be human while on duty). I never saw any clarification beyond the initial article.
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If an off duty officer is just a private citizen when he's off duty, then how can they wright speeding tickets when they are off duty? I've gotten one from an off duty deputy and one from an off duty city cop.

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Re: Open Carry Restrictions

Post by TheGreatGonzo on Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:03 am

bubbat wrote:
TheGreatGonzo wrote:
bubbat wrote:There were some on duty plain clothes officers refused service at a Buffalo Wild Wings in Va. last week, a Denny's in Ill. did it to last year. They both caught hell for it.
I would think only a person who has problems with police officers would deny them service because they had a firearm.

That news article was not very clear. It referred to them as "plain clothes officers" at one point, but later seemed to infer they were off-duty. That makes a difference. In one case they would be private citizens carrying firearms, in another they would have been LEOs in the performance of their official duties (yes, we are allowed to eat, go the bathroom, burp/fart, and otherwise be human while on duty). I never saw any clarification beyond the initial article.
Gonzo

If an off duty officer is just a private citizen when he's off duty, then how can they wright speeding tickets when they are off duty? I've gotten one from an off duty deputy and one from an off duty city cop.

In most states, a LEO has the authority to enforce laws whether or not he/she is on or off duty.

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