Am I breaking the law?

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Am I breaking the law?

Post by RayJay on Sun 14 Jul 2013 - 12:34

confused There are a number of stores in Tate and Panola county that have put up "No Firearms" signs on their doors. I have an enhanced carry permit. I've been ignoring the signs and carry concealed into those stores anyway. Is this illegal? I carry IWB and no one has ever discovered my revolver before. But if my weapon were seen while I was in said store, what would the consequences be?

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Re: Am I breaking the law?

Post by BobKat on Sun 14 Jul 2013 - 12:42

Yup, you're trespassing.  Lots of threads on this very topic.

btw,  welcome   to the forum!

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Re: Am I breaking the law?

Post by RayJay on Sun 14 Jul 2013 - 12:49

Where might I find these threads?

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Re: Am I breaking the law?

Post by msredneck on Sun 14 Jul 2013 - 12:54

do a lil reading first on the forum...yeah U are pretty much breaking the law...it all depends on who you ask...there's no definitive answer so far yet.

Its a mess

anyway...why would you ask if you were breaking the law (after the fact) on a PUBLIC forum...I just would not have asked it that way I guess...

any way...there's much more drama to come...hope you enjoy it

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Re: Am I breaking the law?

Post by RayJay on Sun 14 Jul 2013 - 13:05

msredneck wrote:do a lil reading first on the forum...yeah  U are pretty much breaking the law...it all depends on who you ask...there's no definitive answer so far yet.

Its a mess

anyway...why would you ask if you were breaking the law (after the fact) on a PUBLIC forum...I just would not have asked it that way I guess...

any way...there's much more drama to come...hope you enjoy it
 
 
Well.......... I've gone out of my way all my life to do the right thing.  If in fact it's not legal to carry into a store with a "No Guns" sign then I won't carry in there.  But this kind of defeats the CCW law.[/color]

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Re: Am I breaking the law?

Post by onlymaroonmatters on Sun 14 Jul 2013 - 13:33

Hypothetically, if I had a CCW permit and IC sticker, and even carried a firearm, I would carry everywhere except the very few places not allowed: court with judge present, school campus if you yourself are a student anywhere, and any law enforcement building/jail. Other than that, I be totin. Hypothetically speaking of course.
As stated previously, hit up the search box or look at gun laws section. Numerous reads on the topic.

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Re: Am I breaking the law?

Post by bucmeister on Sun 14 Jul 2013 - 13:45

RayJay, 

You are correct, the unintended consequences of the anti-gun media hype surrounding HB 2 has induced an adverse public overreaction by the businesses all over the state aided and abetted by the various police and sheriff departments promoting the placing of the signs.

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Re: Am I breaking the law?

Post by PWB on Sun 14 Jul 2013 - 15:59

http://safefireshooting.com/MS_Concealed_Carry.html

Several days ago I found and posted the above link...it doesn't specify whether or not enhanced carry permit are prohibited to enter a business that has a "no guns allowed" sign or not...it seems like I read somewhere that if you have the enhanced carry permit you may be exempt from trespassing unless the business owner or their representative ask you to leave...but I'm not 100% sure about that...there is so much being posted about the entire carrying issue what once seemed fairly simple and straight forward is now a clear as mud!!!

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Re: Am I breaking the law?

Post by patstar556 on Sun 14 Jul 2013 - 16:09

Welcome to the forum, RayJay!

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Re: Am I breaking the law?

Post by surehuntsalot on Sun 14 Jul 2013 - 16:18

yes you are breaking the law

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Re: Am I breaking the law?

Post by RayJay on Sun 14 Jul 2013 - 16:58

Razz  groan .... Sounds like I need to learn to run faster and hide better. Looks like there's no need to renew my CCW permit. I wonder if the bad guys are reading and obeying the signs?  I guess a sword cane is out of the question....

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Re: Am I breaking the law?

Post by 94LEVERFAN on Sun 14 Jul 2013 - 18:40

RayJay wrote:Razz  groan .... Sounds like I need to learn to run faster and hide better. Looks like there's no need to renew my CCW permit. I wonder if the bad guys are reading and obeying the signs?  I guess a sword cane is out of the question....

Sword cane, lol.  I have a buddy, ex marine, vietnam vet.  Old and CANTANCEROUS(spelling?).  He has a sword cane.  Was at a convenience store on hwy 80 in West Jackson last yr.  Couple of thuggy looking folks started hitting him up for money while he was pumping gas.  Told em twice to leave hime alone.  One got a little to close to Bubba's comfort zone.  Yep, out comes the sword.  He chased them BACK INTO THE STORE.  Needless to say, they left him alone.  No one effs with him at that store anymore.

By the way, you might be violating a tresspass law, but with IC you are NOT violating the CC law.  That said, IANAL.

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Re: Am I breaking the law?

Post by PlaneMack on Mon 15 Jul 2013 - 0:25

Rayjay....you are going to find TONS of OPINIONS on this and other forums.  Here is what the STATUTES say regarding specifically CCW/IC.  However, until someone "pushes to test" and we get this in court, everyone is just "guessing" at best.....even the most educated.

(CCW no IC) 45-9-101..(13)  No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed pistol or revolver into any place .....  In addition to the places enumerated in this subsection, the carrying of a concealed pistol or revolver may be disallowed in any place in the discretion of the person or entity exercising control over the physical location of such place by the placing of a written notice clearly readable at a distance of not less than ten (10) feet that the "carrying of a pistol or revolver is prohibited."  

(CCW/IC) 97-37-7..(2) As amended by HB506 It shall further not be a violation of this or any other statute for pistols, firearms or other suitable and appropriate weapons to be carried by....A person licensed under Section 45-9-101 to carry a concealed pistol, who has voluntarily completed an instructional course in the safe handling and use of firearms offered by an instructor certified by a nationally recognized organization that customarily offers firearms training, or by any other organization approved by the Department of Public Safety, shall also be authorized to carry
weapons in courthouses except in courtrooms during a judicial proceeding, and any location listed in subsection (13) of Section 45-9-101, except any place of nuisance as defined in Section 95-3-1, any police, sheriff or highway patrol station or any detention facility, prison or jail.

No matter which side of the argument folks stand on...property rights vs RKBA....the LAW is clear.  IT SHALL NOT BE A VIOLATION OF THIS OR ANY OTHER STATUTE.  I am not giving an opinion...just stating the facts.  Also, just for the sake of not sparking an entirely different thread...let's just assume that this applies to all "no gun" signs whether or not they are worded exactly as depicted in the statute.

Might someone still get arrested if they walk past a sign and the business owner spots it and calls the cops...maybe.  Will the charges stick...who knows.

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Re: Am I breaking the law?

Post by PlaneMack on Mon 15 Jul 2013 - 0:46

To finish my thought.  Based on the statutes, it is not a violation of ANY statute to walk past a "no guns" sign (legal wording or not) with CCW/IC.  However, a business owner can ask anyone at anytime to leave whether or not you are carrying a firearm, and if you don't, THEN I agree with all of the other posts that you can be charged with trespassing at that time, as it has zero to do with the firearm and everything to do with you being asked to leave and refusing to do so.

Some will say that the sign is your notice of "being asked to leave", however.....refer back to the statute.  If you can't be charged with a crime (gun nor trespassing) for walking past the sign with a firearm, the only way you can be charged is if you are doing something that falls outside of what the statute covers.  That would be refusing a request from the business owner to leave which is NOT exempt from the statute.  I know that the AG put out an opinion that is contrary to this, but this is exactly what the LAW says.  And again, until it gets to court...NOBODY really knows.

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Re: Am I breaking the law?

Post by RTD199 on Mon 15 Jul 2013 - 2:54

PlaneMack wrote:To finish my thought.  Based on the statutes, it is not a violation of ANY statute to walk past a "no guns" sign (legal wording or not) with CCW/IC.  However, a business owner can ask anyone at anytime to leave whether or not you are carrying a firearm, and if you don't, THEN I agree with all of the other posts that you can be charged with trespassing at that time, as it has zero to do with the firearm and everything to do with you being asked to leave and refusing to do so.

Some will say that the sign is your notice of "being asked to leave", however.....refer back to the statute.  If you can't be charged with a crime (gun nor trespassing) for walking past the sign with a firearm, the only way you can be charged is if you are doing something that falls outside of what the statute covers.  That would be refusing a request from the business owner to leave which is NOT exempt from the statute.  I know that the AG put out an opinion that is contrary to this, but this is exactly what the LAW says.  And again, until it gets to court...NOBODY really knows.



thumbs up I agree with your thought , and fact is unless said business has a metal detector or in case of some amusement parks , stadiums, theaters, ect that check baggage ,or God forbid you have a life or death encounter were you must draw your concealed weapon who's ever going to know....out of sight out of mine.

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Re: Am I breaking the law?

Post by PWB on Mon 15 Jul 2013 - 6:40

PlaneMack wrote:To finish my thought.  Based on the statutes, it is not a violation of ANY statute to walk past a "no guns" sign (legal wording or not) with CCW/IC.  However, a business owner can ask anyone at anytime to leave whether or not you are carrying a firearm, and if you don't, THEN I agree with all of the other posts that you can be charged with trespassing at that time, as it has zero to do with the firearm and everything to do with you being asked to leave and refusing to do so.

Some will say that the sign is your notice of "being asked to leave", however.....refer back to the statute.  If you can't be charged with a crime (gun nor trespassing) for walking past the sign with a firearm, the only way you can be charged is if you are doing something that falls outside of what the statute covers.  That would be refusing a request from the business owner to leave which is NOT exempt from the statute.  I know that the AG put out an opinion that is contrary to this, but this is exactly what the LAW says.  And again, until it gets to court...NOBODY really knows.

Well said...that was my thoughts about the way the statute reads...if you OC (if that ever happens) pay attention to the signs and where you are...if you have the enhanced carry permit all you have to be concerned about are the few exceptions listed in the statute, unless you are a bail bondsman or a lawyer, this won't be much of an imposition...for those who have only the firearms permit; the statute specifies nine locations or events that you can not carry, if I read the statute correctly....as an LEO the only place I've been restricted from carrying a firearm are jail/prison facilities and federal courts...officers generally are allowed to carry firearms in municipal and county courts...but if a judge prohibits it then; no gun in his/her courtroom ... generally, an enhance carry permit allows you to carry a firearm just about anywhere a LEO is allowed to carry...as long as it's concealed.  Enhanced permit is the way to go!

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Re: Am I breaking the law?

Post by 0utlier on Mon 15 Jul 2013 - 9:51

PlaneMack.... What a well laid out and logical step through of the statutes involved. The way you see it is how I see it.

It's very frustrating dealing with contradictory statutes and for so much to be up for interpretation. Somebody will need to get pinched for ccw/ic/trespass for things to be written in stone. Until then we will all continue to opine.

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Re: Am I breaking the law?

Post by fredfredfred on Mon 15 Jul 2013 - 14:31

Yes, in my opinion it's legal.

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Re: Am I breaking the law?

Post by rmse9 on Mon 15 Jul 2013 - 15:28

I have always tried to be a law abiding citizen, but in relation to CCW and I do not have enhanced, I still believe in the theory in most instances I would prefer to fight charges in court for being in violation rather than be left as a target for some freaked out gangster wanting to take my life.

I carry in a manner that the possibility of accidental exposure of my weapon is not going to happen. I am in no way saying this is the correct option.  I would prefer to be a very law abiding citizen as I am too old to go to jail and have never been there before. I am not recommending that others do this. It is the option I prefer over the possibility of having a bulls-eye painted on my back in a gun free zone. This is my choice and really does not answer the question, but we all must make choices we can live or die with.

One note, I do not carry in courthouses, federal facilities where prohibited, police stations, etc. I may be a little crazy, but not totally stupid and I would hope these locations would have adequately armed personnel available in the event a felon decided to go off the deep end.


Last edited by rmse9 on Mon 15 Jul 2013 - 15:35; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : omission of statement)

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Re: Am I breaking the law?

Post by DieselDoc on Mon 15 Jul 2013 - 16:56

Ditto, ditto, and ditto! thumbs up

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