MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

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MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by rickward on Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:33 pm

One of our members (CinBrandon) identified the owner of the Magee Wendy's a couple of months ago and tried to get the No Guns sign removed. He never got a response from their website. But he knew a member of the owner's church and asked him to sway the owner (who owns 15 more Wendy's in the state). He had no luck with that attempt either.

Last week a young lady was violently murdered with little time to scream for help as she was stabbed repeatedly in the chest area and had her throat cut. This was a domestic dispute rather than a robbery. Some say she could have been helped, others said it happened too quickly. Who knows, but there was always a chance.

We need to let the business owners know about these stupid signs caused by some of our dumbest police chiefs do not work. These police officers sworn to uphold the load, defend and enforce the law all ought to be fired for trying to circumvent the law for their own agenda that they lied about, claiming their concern was the shopping public. B.S.

Our friends and families need to know also. They need to know that if you, the breadwinner walk into a place like Wendy's or any other business and get killed by a robber or murder, you most likely will have no recourse against them. They will prove that they could not have predicted the shooting and shared no responsibility. Unless they are in a high crime area where robberies and murders are rampant and knew that they should have taken some action to protect the public, they will probably get away with no liability. You the breadwinner will be gone and Wendy's wont pay a dime. They might give you a free burger.

I sent a Letter to the editor of the Magee Courier today. He called me back and told me he will run it next week. I have copied the text below for you to read:

October 8, 2013

Editor:

Everyone including myself is grief-stricken over the recent senseless, violent murder that took place in Magee. I have always thought of Magee as a quaint little peaceful town where my father-in-law served as an alderman for over 20 years. I married my wife of over 35 years in the Magee home where her 90 year old father was born.

The problem is we are no longer safe anywhere, in our homes, businesses or churches. We can now by law carry a gun to protect ourselves in all 3 places but the businesses are prohibiting it by signage. A few weeks ago, a pastor was killed at the pulpit of his church while preaching God’s word in nearby Lake Charles, LA.

We have to be able to defend ourselves and others vulnerable to attack. According to one of our MSGunOwners.com members, he had identified the owner of the Magee Wendy’s a couple of months ago and both through their website and a member of the owner’s church made an attempt to ask him to remove their “no gun” signs to no avail. There is no guarantee that this young lady’s life could have been saved anyway, but no guarantee that it could not have been either. What about the next time? What about the next business?

As a 60 year old retired police officer, I have spent all my adult life watching tragedies like these unfold. I decided a year and a half ago to start teaching people how to use a gun to defend their lives. I have taught almost 130 classes with almost 1,500 students in attendance all around the State of Mississippi, including the Magee and Simpson County area since I started.

A few months ago, a bill was passed by our legislature that was erroneously referred to as the “open carry” law. Many police chiefs and sheriffs around the
state panicked and caused terror among the business community. The police, not in agreement with the new law sought a way to make it difficult in my opinion for people to carry. In the late June Police Chief’s Association meeting on the coast, they discussed and later circulated signs for all businesses to put up outlawing guns on premises in the name of protecting customers. Many felt compelled to put up the signs because the police are a figure of authority and some may have felt pressured by them

Making gun free zones anywhere, does not save lives. It invites criminals to come into a place that has been made an easy target. We have scores of documented places where it has happened. I love my law enforcement brethren, but they are dead wrong on this subject.

I provide a brief to civic organizations with videos of robberies and murders foiled by concealed weapon permit holders in stores like Dollar General, Waffle House, Auto Zone, home owned beauty shops and local banks. I would be glad to travel anywhere in the state to provide this brief without cost to any recipient.

Rick Ward (601) 665-6088

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by coolpapaj on Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:38 pm

Great letter. Thanks!!

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by Scharfschütze on Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:40 pm

Rick, I wish you would send that (with modification to make it universal to the State of Mississippi) to all newspapers in the state.

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by sand_man on Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:50 pm

Rick, if I get you the information, would you send that letter to our local paper?

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by rickward on Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:58 pm

I am working on a few minor changes right now that might make it more appealing to papers around the state, but yes, I will be glad to send it to yours if you send me the info.

Thanks,
Rick

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by senilking on Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:25 pm

I actually heard that he was yelling at her through the drive through, and then came in. She was telling everyone to get out. Granted, that's from someone that knew them, so it's third hand news by the time it made it to me, but it really shakes it up since it would have meant someone would have had plenty of time to meet him at the door with a deterrent.

Thanks Rick, fighting a good fight for us all.

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by rickward on Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:47 pm

I have now prepared this letter primarily changing the first paragraph to make it more generic for other papers across the state because I am getting requests for it. I have it if you want it and have no problem with you submitting it to your own.

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by stewbaby on Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:53 pm

Great letter. Thanks.

Senilking, good point you raise.

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by 1985 4runner on Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:18 pm

Thank you for all your efforts.

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by rickward on Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:21 pm

1985 4 runner:

You're welcome, glad to help. I have seen the signage problem to be worse in Biloxi. You have you work cut out for you if that's where you live. I tried to submit my letter to the editor online to the Sun Herald but they had a maximum words of 250 and mine is 500.

Rick

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by captain-03 on Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:50 pm

Rick -- as usual, good job and thanks!!

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by 1010 on Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:25 pm

Can I use (copy & paste) this on other forums?


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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by rickward on Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:56 pm

Use this version please. It is almost the same but more generic for other locations.

As “No Gun” signs litter the windows of our small town businesses across the state, one is no longer visible, not now anyway. Everyone with knowledge of it is grief-stricken over the recent senseless, violent murder that took place in small town Magee. I have always thought of Magee as a quaint little peaceful town, a nice stopping point on highway 49, whether you are traveling from the coast to Jackson or headed south.

We are no longer safe anywhere, in our homes, businesses or churches. We can carry a gun by law to protect ourselves in all 3 places but the businesses are prohibiting it by signage. A few weeks ago, a pastor was killed at the pulpit of his church while preaching God’s word in nearby Lake Charles, LA.

We have to be able to defend ourselves and others vulnerable to attack. A few months ago, an acquaintance of mine identified the owner of the Magee Wendy’s, who is believed to own about 15 more statewide. Through their website and acquaintances of the owner, attempts were made to get the owner to remove the “no gun” signs to no avail.

As a 60 year old retired police officer, I have spent all my adult life watching tragedies like these unfold. I decided a year and a half ago to start teaching people how to use a gun to defend their lives. I have taught over 130 classes with almost 1,500 students all around the State of Mississippi, including Magee since I started.

A few months ago, a bill was passed by our legislature that was erroneously referred to as the “open carry” law. Many police chiefs and sheriffs around the state panicked and caused terror among the business community. The police, not in agreement with the new law or Attorney General opinions sought a way to make it difficult in my opinion for people to carry. In the late June Police Chief’s Association meeting on the coast, they discussed and later circulated signs for all businesses to put up outlawing guns on premises as their own agenda, but in the name of protecting customers. Many felt compelled to put up the signs because the police are a figure of authority. Some may have felt pressured by them.

Making gun-free zones anywhere, does not save lives. It invites criminals to come into a place that has been made an easy target. We have scores of documented places where it has happened. I love my law enforcement brethren, but they are dead wrong on this subject.

I provide a brief to civic organizations with videos of robberies and murders foiled by concealed weapon permit holders in stores like Dollar General, Waffle House, Auto Zone, home owned beauty shops and local banks. I would be glad to travel anywhere in the state to provide this brief without cost to any recipient. The police are not always right. You need to hear the other side.

Rick Ward (601) 665-6088

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by sand_man on Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:39 am

Sent to our local paper. Thanks again Rick!

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by bbenea on Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:17 am

Great work, thanks Rick!

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by patstar556 on Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:41 am

Thanks, Rick. I'm very sad to hear news of this tragedy. My prayers are with the victims family.

It is unfortunate that business leaders choose to believe "gun free zones" make their invitees safer.

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by ScottW on Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:05 am

Rick, I've seen the video, and there was ample time for someone to respond and deter the murder. The physical assault began at least 90 seconds perhaps even longer before he started stabbing her. The employees all ran out of the building and left her there to fend for herself. No customers were seen on the video, but may have been out of the main frame I witnessed. The perpetrator was captured on our property next door, which is behind the property we lease to Walgreens and Berry's, near what was the old body shop of Womack Ford back in the early 1970's.

The responding Wendy's representative who played the video back asked what law enforcement thought about the No Firearms sign. The response was that only law abiding people go back and put their firearm in the vehicle, thugs will continue to conceal and bring in their firearms. The representative was asked by law enforcement what if the sign had said No Knives, did he think it would have stopped the assault and murder. The representative agreed it wouldn't have stopped the assault and murder.

At least they now have the knowledge that an incident did happen, and that loyal customer with a concealed or open carried firearm, who could have been there, may have just chosen to stop somewhere else that day because of the No Firearms sign. A life that may have been saved, wasn't and the sign is there to prove that the owner would rather endanger his customers and employees in an effort to improve the profit margin and deny citizens their rights, than protect the lives of his employees and customers.


How much did this cost the owner in lost earnings for being shut down and litigation that may have simply been prevented by someone stepping up and intervening. Most likely, deadly force would have never been used, the incident could have been deescalated before it reached the point when he began stabbing her.

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by rickward on Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:42 am

Scott,

As usual, you have made an awesome response. You being privy to and sharing this information with us is invaluable. How much of it can be used in future pleas to people to take down those damn signs?

We really appreciate your response. You are my hero!

Rick

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by ScottW on Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:35 am

I've was told there is already an attorney who is wanting to use this case as one to start litigation to hopefully take down some of the signs. I'll pm you my number so we can talk about it.

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by sand_man on Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:42 am

clap clap 

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by patstar556 on Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:29 pm

It can be argued that when the government restricts our right to self defense at a gov't controlled location they are creating a "duty to protect."

I believe this argument will be applied to businesses with the "no gun signs."  

Once the insurance companies start adjusting premiums based on signage businesses will really loose interest in posting signs.

I don't think you'll see lawyer commercials on TV just yet but it could happen.  

It amazes me that they don't seem to want our business (EDIT: or provide for their customer's safety) but they'll more than likely drop their position over liability and insurance premiums.

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by Glock1701D on Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:01 pm

ScottW wrote:I've was told there is already an attorney who is wanting to use this case as one to start litigation to hopefully take down some of the signs. I'll pm you my number so we can talk about it.
Sometimes it takes a tragedy like this to open eyes. Looks like you not only opened their eyes, but ripped the lids off.
Great job!

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by captain-03 on Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:23 pm

ScottW:  Thanks for the informative post about the events. Interesting!!

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by Sluggo on Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:36 pm

If only Wendy's had posted a "NO KNIVES" sign this tragedy could have been avoided.

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by rickward on Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:28 pm

I just went to Wendy's in Magee. They still have "No Gun" signs on each door. They don't have the statutory language, just a picture of a gun with a line through it and the words "No Guns" underneath. I am sure their lawyer told them if they took it down now, it would almost be like an admission of guilt.

Rick

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by rickward on Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:36 pm

I am broken hearted, once again I have pissed off the Executive Director of the Mississippi Police Chief's Association. I sent him an article on the girl getting killed in the no-gun Wendy's. He doesn't want me to e-mail him with anything else about signage. He is the number one man you can thank for the signage and I think some of y'all need to let him know how stupid his idea was. His e-mail is listed below. Don't worry, he is retired and has no authority. You can tell him exactly what you think about his signage idea and the comments he made in the e-mail to me below. I have no respect for the man and used to be friends with him. I have known him for almost 20 years. I wouldn't give him the time of day now. Read below our correspondence following my e-mail to him:


Ken Winter (kenwinter54@gmail.com)
8:51 PM
To:

So, your position is law abiding citizens should be armed to take the place of police and step,in and enforce laws ???? This is on the very reasons I opposed it.

Don't email me with any thing else regarding this issue.

Sent from my iPad

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: rickward47@hotmail.com
To: kenwinter54@gmail.com
Subject: RE: MAGEE WENDY'S EMPLOYEE STABBED TO DEATH LAST WEEK
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 20:56:46 -0400

No, my position is that law abiding citizens have been given the right by the legislature to carry guns. That is a law, a law that law enforcement officers are sworn to obey, uphold and enforce. By no fault of the police, they can't be everywhere and rarely can arrive on time. Law abiding citizens should not take the place of police but should be able to defend themselves in the absence of the police. You were dead wrong in your position and I make sure every business and civic club knows it every chance I get. They are taking down the signs.

By the way, nobody ever said anything about "enforcing the laws." There is a huge difference in enforcing the laws and defending your life or the life of others as allowed in our Justifiable Homicide Law, read it sometimes. ("Protect the life of any human being.") This is the kind of misrepresentation that started the panic with businesses, along with the claims that Mississippi would become a "Wild West" all over again. I haven't seen anybody other than myself open carrying.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ken Winter (kenwinter54@gmail.com)
9:21 PM

Whatever.

Sent from my iPad

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Rick Ward

9:22 PM

Oh yeah, the girl was dead by the time the police arrived and the suspect had left the scene...see why we need armed citizens?


NO REPLY AS OF YET bull 


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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by 94LEVERFAN on Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:45 pm

Sluggo wrote:If only Wendy's had posted a "NO KNIVES" sign this tragedy could have been avoided.
LOL, LOL.
Not laughing at the tragedy folks, just the absurdity.

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by 94LEVERFAN on Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:48 pm

rickward wrote:I am broken hearted, once again I have pissed off the Executive Director of the Mississippi Police Chief's Association.  I sent him an article on the girl getting killed in the no-gun Wendy's.  He doesn't want me to e-mail him with anything else about signage. He is the number one man you can thank for the signage and I think some of y'all need to let him know how stupid his idea was. His e-mail is listed below. Don't worry, he is retired and has no authority. You can tell him exactly what you think about his signage idea and the comments he made in the e-mail to me below. I have no respect for the man and used to be friends with him. I have known him for almost 20 years. I wouldn't give him the time of day now. Read below our correspondence following my e-mail to him:


Ken Winter (kenwinter54@gmail.com)
8:51 PM
To:
 
So, your position is law abiding citizens should be armed to take the place of police and step,in and enforce laws ???? This is on the very reasons I opposed it.  

Don't email me with any thing else regarding this issue.  

Sent from my iPad

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: rickward47@hotmail.com
To: kenwinter54@gmail.com
Subject: RE: MAGEE WENDY'S EMPLOYEE STABBED TO DEATH LAST WEEK
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 20:56:46 -0400

No, my position is that law abiding citizens have been given the right by the legislature to carry guns. That is a law, a law that law enforcement officers are sworn to obey, uphold and enforce. By no fault of the police, they can't be everywhere and rarely can arrive on time. Law abiding citizens should not take the place of police but should be able to defend themselves in the absence of the police. You were dead wrong in your position and I make sure every business and civic club knows it every chance I get. They are taking down the signs.

By the way, nobody ever said anything about "enforcing the laws." There is a huge difference in enforcing the laws and defending your life or the life of others as allowed in our Justifiable Homicide Law, read it sometimes. ("Protect the life of any human being.") This is the kind of misrepresentation that started the panic with businesses,  along with the claims that Mississippi would become a "Wild West" all over again. I haven't seen anybody other than myself open carrying.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ken Winter (kenwinter54@gmail.com)
9:21 PM

Whatever.

Sent from my iPad

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Rick Ward

9:22 PM

Oh yeah, the girl was dead by the time the police arrived and the suspect had left the scene...see why we need armed citizens?


NO REPLY AS OF YET  bull 

Rick, this Ken fellow sounds like a real piece of work. Just where was he ever a chief at? And yes, continue to call him out on the carpet. Good job. Bruce.

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by rickward on Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:08 pm

He was a Chief at Indianola in the mid-90s when I was an Investigator in the Public Integrity Division of the Attorney General's Office. I worked a case when he was on the Board of the Police Chief's Association. He and two other board members (all police chiefs) let their Secretary and Treasurer steal almost $200K of their money right from under their nose. He got probation at the state level, but the feds took my file and sent him to prison for about 3 years. He was a former Sheriff, brother to another Sheriff and former Chief Investigator for the State Auditor under Steve Patterson (who now is also a convicted felon). Anyway Ken Winter went on to work as State Crime Lab Director and I think he worked in the Academy up in the Delta.

It doesn't have to be a pissing match between he and I though. All of us have been affected by his work on signage. Tell him what you think...tell others to tell him what they think.

Thanks Bruce

Rick

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by gutdoc on Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:23 pm

Did Winter or the Secretary and Treasurer go to jail or both?

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by rickward on Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:28 pm

No Winter and his two other board members (both Chiefs), never even knew the guy stole the money from them. I found out and called them in and showed them the books I got from the bank by subpoena. They were clueless. The Secretary went to jail while they were embarrassed for having their heads in the sand. Just like I told him about HB2. They were asleep at the wheel, were my comments to him. Andy Gipson introduced the bill on Jan 8 and the Governor signed it into law on March 4. They didn't even raise an issue until May or June. As I said, they were asleep at the wheel, apparently always have been.

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by Kool_Breeze on Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:28 pm

Ah, I thought you meant Winter got 3 years, but you meant the secretary.

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by stewbaby on Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:30 pm

Speechless.

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by sand_man on Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:32 pm

scratch wall bash 

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by rickward on Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:46 pm

Sorry for the confusion.

Rick

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by gutdoc on Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:49 pm

Incompetent vs. asleep at the wheel? That is the question. Regardless it appears the guy needs to resign. My advice to the current Chiefs would be to find and remove any sign that could be traced back to them. Hopefully the first lawsuit will name Winters along with the others responsible for pushing the placement of these signs in a wrongful death suit.

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by rickward on Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:12 pm

I would not disagree with you.

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by mascott on Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:08 pm

BOY! He really got back at you with that second response of his "whatever". Is he a 12 y/o girl?
Thanks for all you do Rick.
scott

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by bubbat on Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:23 pm

WOW, Ken was the Chief when I lived in Indianola, I knew him socially and talked to him a few times, but I can see how he had money stolen out from under his nose, his assistant chief (good friend of mine) handled most everything to do with the PD, while Ken mostly just drew a check for doing nothing. Never knew he was so against open carry.

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Re: MURDER AT WENDY'S IN MAGEE HAD "NO GUNS" SIGN POSTED

Post by rickward on Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:04 pm

THE number 1 enemy of open carry and his comments show the ignorance.

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