What if your gun prints and you are made while carrying?

I spent many years in a state where if you were carrying concealed and your rig printed so that a law enforcement officer could "make" you, you could be cited. Needless to say, that created a preoccupation with your carry rig not printing regardless of what you may be doing. However, one does look odd with a jacket on when it is 100 degrees in the shade!

In Mississippi, are there any consequences if 1) you have a valid concealed carry permit, and 2) for some reason your carry rig prints and its outline is clear enough that a police officer can be reasonably sure that you are carrying? By Mississippi statute, a police officer would have a right to ask you to display your concealed carry permit, but are there any consequences other than that? Anyone encounter this situation in Mississippi?

Since case law in Mississippi allows you to open carry with a firearms permit, "printing" is really a moot point as long has you have the permit with you. That doesn't mean a given LEO will properly understand the law but the prohibition is against carrying "concealed whole or in part" unless you have a permit.

Yhr permit doesnt allow oc. The law supposedly does but isnt always the best thing to do. Dont worry about printing.

Find a way to not print.

Buy a better holster...Dress differently...Have more than one concealed carry firearm to fit the situation. One place where folks skimp is on their belt...Its often not heavy duty enough for a gun.

What I carry in Ms in Jan is not the same as what I carry on the beach in Destin in July...

You can hide your weapon...U just have to work at it. Other than possibly being questioned by a LEO you cannot be written up...unless someone where to try and get you for brandishing...

I will respectfully disagree with one of our new forum members about open carry in MS...we've beat that horse to death.....and I still have an open invitation to anyone who wants to OC in Hinds Cty and let me follow them and video tape....

To bring this out of retirement...see the following

Dang, I don't know how that fellow could sit down.

One other point to keep in mind.

Most people are so "self-centered" or self absorbed that they do not notice you near as much as you might think they do...I know when you first start carrying you think everyone in the world knows...it just aint so.

Hell just stop at a light one time and count all the idiots talking on the blasted cell phone continually in the on-coming traffic...you'll be amazed...most folks really are sheeple...they are not paying attention at all.

I say go about your business....

I deliver home health care and hospice supplies and its kinda nerve racking when i have a emergency delivery at 9pm in the hood. I always carry the biggest gun i can.
Im always worried bout printing but then again like neck said 90% of peeps out there could walk past you and in 2 seconds couldnt remember what color shirt you had on much less if they are looking for a weapon printing.

I don't carry the biggest weapon I have...IF circumstances allow it I try and carry the weapon I can hit the best with

My fav is a Glock 19 but a S&W 642 rides in the front pocket pretty regular

Guess i could have listed my options. The biggest is my xd service model i shoot at the matchs. Then theres my xd subcompact, and the baby of them is the LCR.

While the video shows a lot, I'd like to see him bend over and pick up a case of water with the either of the guns on.

Yes you can conceal just about anything just standing there. Try walking, sitting, getting something off the top shelf at walmart.
I could go on but you see my point.

True, even in a wheelchair, I can wear a poncho on a rainy day and conceal my Desert Eagle in a shoulder rig...but I would look silly as hell on a 110 degree day in August.

Just found this interpretation of Mississippi law by two law enforcement officials:
In the state of Mississippi, with the proper permits, a person can carry a gun out into public as long as it is concealed or partially concealed, according to Mississippi Code 45-9-101.

The permit must be carried at all times a weapon is being carried and the carrier must always be able to produce a valid form of identification.

Adams County Sheriff Chuck Mayfield said “partially concealed” allows for holstered weapons, since the holster would cover a portion of the gun.

In addition, gun owners with permits can place a gun wherever they’d like to, whether in plain sight or not, in their own vehicle, business or house, Police Chief Mike Mullins said.

“My professional recommendation is out of sight, out of mind,” Mullins said. “If you are going to carry a weapon, keep it out of plain sight.”

http://www.natchezdemocrat.com/news/2010/mar/28/open-carry-gun-laws-trigger-discussion/

If their view were official, "printing" would apparently be a non-issue.

Lots of mis-information in that article. For example, no permit is required for a gun in your house or vehicle as implied in the article. Also, the article demonstrates that MS law is confusing even to LEOs on the issue of "partial concealment since concealment "whole or in part" isn't defined in the statute.

There is no doubt some confusion along with differing opinions out there about the law in this area. Chuck is a friend of mine and I plan to discuss this issue with him sometime in the near future. The below is not to be considered legal advice in any way nor an exhaustive or complete recitation of authority on the matter, but just for your own consideration:

The concealed carry statute, Miss. Code Ann. § 45-9-101(18), states in part:

Further, nothing in this section shall be construed to allow the open and unconcealed carrying of any deadly weapon as described in Section 97-37-1, Mississippi Code of 1972."

Miss. Code Ann. § 97-37-1(1) defines deadly weapons as:

Except as otherwise provided in Section 45-9-101, any person who carries, concealed in whole or in part, any bowie knife, dirk knife, butcher knife, switchblade knife, metallic knuckles, blackjack, slingshot, pistol, revolver, or any rifle with a barrel of less than sixteen (16) inches in length, or any shotgun with a barrel of less than eighteen (18) inches in length, machine gun or any fully automatic firearm or deadly weapon, or any muffler or silencer for any firearm, whether or not it is accompanied by a firearm, or uses or attempts to use against another person any imitation firearm, shall upon conviction be punished as follows..."

That seems relatively clear and if it was just that, there would be less confusion in my opinion. You can't carry concealed in whole or in part, unless you have a permit and then you can carry concealed but not "open" or "unconcealed". But wait, those terms aren't defined, so we look to the Courts....

I am not aware of any cases by the appellate courts directly addressing concealed/unconcealed in the context of the concealed carry statute, although there are some cases that deal with the criminal charge of carrying a concealed weapon, i.e. without a permit, that have led to a lot of confusion and assumptions. Here are a few of the cases and some of the pertinent language from them:

In L.M., Jr. v. State, 600 So. 2d 967 (Miss. 1992), the Court held that riding in a vehicle where guns were stashed was not enough to prove contructive possession. In his concurring opinion, Chief Justice Roy Noble Lee stated:

I concur with the majority opinion, but I think more should be said about carrying concealed weapons.

One of the first cases I undertook as a young lawyer was the defense of a man charged with carrying a concealed weapon. I thought his defense would be simple and easy until I learned what the statute meant. To my amazement, I discovered that carrying a concealed weapon in whole or in part even meant that a revolver carried in a holster on a man's hip was a partially concealed weapon, riding a horse with a saddle holster and revolver under a person's leg violated the statute; and that covering a weapon with feet, hands, or clothing meant that the weapon was concealed under the interpretation of the statute. Conceivably, carrying a revolver suspended from the neck by a leather throng could be partially concealing it. (One Western gunfighter used that method.)

The reasons for the strict interpretation of the statute were that many years ago people carried firearms for their protection-usually partially concealed as in holsters. People were also prone to settle their differences by fist fights and it was fairly common to see such incidents occur in public places. If a person was prone to provoke a fight with a seemingly unarmed man, he could easily be killed or injured in the event his adversary was carrying a concealed weapon. If the weapon had been visible probably no altercation would have occurred.

I do not believe that it was the intention of the statute to include “carrying” a concealed weapon as having the weapon in the trunk of an automobile or buggy, in the glove compartment or console of an automobile or the compartment of a surrey or in a valise, suitcase or traveling bag (not airplanes)."

Id. at 971-72.

In Reed v. State, 199 So. 2d 803 (Miss. 1967), the Court held that the search of a defendant's hip pocket which produced a pistol was valid following an arrest where the officer, having observed the form of the pistol in the pocket and thus been furnished grounds for arrest, stopped the defendant and the defendant held up his hands when the officer accused him of carrying gun, whereupon the officer removed gun from pocket, even though he did not use formal words of arrest until he took pistol. Most notably, the Court held that

a person carrying a deadly weapon, only part of which is concealed, carries ‘a concealed weapon.’"

Id at 807 (citing Martin v. State, 47 So. 426 (Miss. 1908).

In Martin, the defendant was indicted, tried, and convicted for carrying concealed weapons. The original indictment returned by the grand jury merely charged the defendant with carrying a concealed pistol. Following testimony that the weapon was only partially concealed, the state asked leave to amend the indictment by inserting the words “in whole or in part,” and the court allowed the amendment to be made. The defendant argued that this was reversible error. The Mississippi Supreme Court held that under the statute used the language "in whole or in part" and that this language does not constitute any essential description of the offense named. It is "merely defining what is meant by concealment." The Court went on to state,

In other words, if a person carry a deadly weapon, and only a part of it is concealed, the other part being visible, he is guilty of carrying a concealed weapon, within the meaning of the statute."

Martin, 47 So. at 426.

To bring this back to the topic and question originally asked, in my opinion there should be no consequences to printing as long as you are not in an area restricted by the statute and you can show your permit. I would be shocked if the Mississippi Supreme Court or most any Court in the State would hold that "printing" would be in violation of the statutes considering the language of the statutes and the cases cited above.

May be a stupid question but what is "printing"?

There is no such thing as a stupid question, in my opinion. I would define "printing" as where the form or "print" of the gun can be seen through the clothes so that it is obvious someone is packing, like the example in Reed v. State above where an officer observed the form of a pistol in the defendant's pocket. It more commonly occurs when someone bends over or reaches for something, pulling the clothes tighter against the body than they normally lie while standing at rest.

Gotcha, I thought yall were talking about showing up on some electrical device like an airport screener or something..

"Further, nothing in this section shall be construed to allow the open and unconcealed carrying of any deadly weapon as described in Section 97-37-1, Mississippi Code of 1972."

Mr. Chaffin, this is the section of the law that convinced me not to try carrying openly except in some very limited conditions, i.e. coming back from the range with my shooting buddy, who is a cop, and stopping at the local convenience store out on the highway to get a cold drink. But I don't make a habit of it.

Also, carrying openly is overly confrontational towards members of the public who aren't carrying. That's my opinion, but I'll stick with it. I don't intend to inflict my values and beliefs on anyone unless they ask me, and quite simply, I believe that carrying openly in a state where not specifically allowed by law, and where open carry is not common in any event, is just a means to give people a bad perception of law abiding gun owners.

The law says that I can carry concealed with certain restrictions, and I won't abuse that privilege by pushing limits that don't need to be pushed. I want to keep carrying, and if someone asks me about this decision or about getting licensed, I'll be glad to help all I can.

As for printing, yes, most people are oblivious to what's going on around them. Do I notice others when they print? Darn straight I do, but then, that's kind of my mindset--printing is a concern of mine, but after 13+ years of carrying with a permit, I simply don't worry about it too much.

Well said. I agree completely with your post, Free_stater. And please, I'm Bryant. Mr. Chaffin is my dad. LOL.

The section you quoted is enough for me, too, and the only time I personally open carry is at the range during a match or while practicing. I apologize if it came off as if I was advocating it. I just wanted to provide the actual language and context from the Appellate Courts on concealed/unconcealed, at least as far as I am aware of it, because of the prior comments in this thread and others.

Like I said, I would be shocked if the Mississippi Supreme Court or most any Court in the State would hold that "printing" would be in violation of the statutes considering the language of the statutes and the cases cited. However, do I want to be the test case for how they interpret § 45-9-101(18) for the first time? Ummm, no thank you. Notice where "in whole or in part" is and where it isn't...

I too view it as a privilege that I don't want to abuse, and I also would be glad to help anyone out if asked.
Thanks for your post.
Bryant

Hey, Bryant, since we're close by, could I call you when I get busted for printing?

I have heard hundreds of stories about people carrying and having various interactions with the police, (heard mostly on gun forums). Many of these folks seem bound and determined to draw the attention of law enforcement.

Funny, but I don't have episodes like this. Most of the police officers I know are aware that I carry, but I don't know all of them. I find it interesting that I don't get stopped by the cops for things like speeding (I don't speed), I don't get questioned when leaving bars (don't go to bars), and don't get pulled aside in Home Depot because some employee saw my sidearm (it's called "concealed" for a reason).

The more low key and low profile I am, when some skank decides the big old guy walking out of Wal Mart looks like a victim, the more likely it is that I will become the absolute worst nightmare he could ever imagine.