Misinformation... Do the cops even know the law?!?

Officer just came in my office here in Amory, MS. I got to picking his brain about their standard protocol if they pull someone over and they explain that there is a weapon in the vehicle. His response:

Well, if it's in a glove box or center console, that's concealed and they're getting charged with it if they don't have a permit. If it's where I can see it I'll ask if they have a permit and if not I'll run the serial number and even if it's not stolen I might charge them with not having a permit or I might not, depending on how they act.


WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH OUR PD!? The freaking police don't even know the laws!? This isn't some rookie, he's been an offier for 29 years. He's the nicest guy in the world, but holy crap man!

okay - end rant.

Some LEOs not knowing the law is the scary part. Sure, you might get the charge(s) dropped, but you will have to deal with lawyers and the court/judge............. ($$$$ and time off from work).

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I have always worried about some "local yahoo" LEO seeing my FAs and thinking they are illegal even after showing them the paperwork. However, the few LEOs who have asked about them didn't have a problem and didn't ask to see the paperwork.

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Hello!

I think it`s the same all over the world. Your words remember me to a fact I know from German police, 99% didn`t know the german gun law in the correct form. As I`m a teacher for gun law it`s always interesting to hear what other officers have on ideas. It`s a shame, and often their background is influenced by medias who are strict against all forms of legal gun ownership.

While I can't expect every LEO to know every law on the books this is unexceptable. Mississippi's Castle Law and the resulting extension law are very well publisized. What would he do during an open hunting season and the weapon was a hunting rifle in a case. That would fulfill his definition of concealed.

if it's not stolen I might charge them with not having a permit or I might not, depending on how they act.

There you have it in a nutshell.

Not all, but too many law enforcement guys are on a power trip.

Guys who could never have power over anybody attend a short training session and are given a gun, badge, and car with blue lights.

With that comes the ability to jerk folks around at will.

Some of my best friends are LEOs, and many are in it for the right reasons, but far too many get into LEO work because they want to drive fast and be able to jerk folks around.

And they can with impunity.

One thing to keep in mind...

LEO's dont make laws...lawyers do...

The purpose of police is to INVESTIGATE CRIMES.....after the fact...

If they can prevent them beforehand then that's even better...

They are not there to protect you...They are there to try and catch the bad guy afterwards..

all that said...its not surprising that they don't have a full grasp of the law...we even argue law on here all the time...

The damn laws are nebulous...I think the MS Legislature keeps it that way on purpose.

Fortunately most LEO's have a lot of common sense...at least in MS....and most are pro-gun for the good guys anyway....

I've learned over the years that it really pays to be very nice and respectful on a traffic stop...if you were speeding etc...take your lumps....but if for some reason you develop an "attitude"...well things can be different

Bottom Line: Try real hard not to give a LEO reason to mess with ya

This is frightening, but I definitely believe that some LEOs don't know the law. In fact, I have met one or two who simply don't care what the law is, they simply react to what they think the law should be. Luckily these folks are in a very small minority, and if the force they belong to is doing proper internal housecleaning, they get set right, or they leave.

It hasn't been all that many years ago that an officer told me without hesitation that Mississippi had NO form of statewide carry permit. When I showed him the permit I'd had for six or seven years, I do believe he wanted to tell me it was a fake, but he finally grumbled that no one had told him about the changes.

In Mississippi and in other states, a check on your driver's license by a LEO will contain a note to the effect that you also have a valid CCW permit. I found this out while checking out on the computers at the 911 office where I worked briefly. I just ran myself, and there it was.

You know the officer can be sued if he arrests you on false charges. I have seen this work in a case in Pascagoula. MSNG pistol shooter was arrested because he had pistols in the car. He also had orders to attend a pistol tournament. They took him into custody anyway. It turned out to be a mess.

Doug

Doug Bowser wrote:You know the officer can be sued if he arrests you on false charges. I have seen this work in a case in Pascagoula. MSNG pistol shooter was arrested because he had pistols in the car. He also had orders to attend a pistol tournament. They took him into custody anyway. It turned out to be a mess.

Doug

But Oh the "hassle" you must go through on something like that...How many of us keep a lawyer on speed dial?

mine is button #6. i thought everyone had a lawyer or two on speed dial lol

How can a LEO be expected to know and understand laws that require a Juris Doctorate to comprehend, defend, prosecute, judge? This comment is no slight against Law Enforcement Officers just the idiots who makes laws to complicated for most people to know/comprehend them all. So we either need to require LEO's to have law degrees or make laws simpler... I vote for the latter lol

My grandfather was once pulled over by a JPD officer because he was using a dealer tag on his trailer. The officer claimed it was illegal to use a dealer tag on a trailer and cited him for it. Grandfather contested the ticket, went to court where my father showed the judge the law, and that was it. No more ticket.

Redneck said it best, laws, no matter where you are, are vague. And if you looked hard enough, you could probably find plenty of laws that are still on the books that contradict what is considered "current" law. How can we as citizens be expected to understand and follow the law when it is generally unavailable in a format that makes sense to somebody without a JD?

With all of that said, if law enforcement's purpose is to enforce the law, then they should know the law. Should they be required to know the law as well as a lawyer should? No, that would be ridiculous. They should however be expected to know what I consider "functional" law. The meat and potatoes, and none of the useless nuances that are the job of the lawyers to comprehend. Pair that with some common sense and good judgment of people, and you will have a pretty good Cop.

The best comparison I can draw is the relationship between JAG, Unit commanders and your average joe on the ground. The ROE that JAG writes most likely does not get handed to every soldier/marine/airman and then expected to read and understand all of the legal jargon and ultimately get the main thrust of the document. That is the job of the commander, to read the ROE, digest it, and compress it into a neat pithy ROE, that your guys on the ground can quickly make decisions with.

In this case, the MS legislature or local municipalities write the law, Police Chief's/Sheriffs compress what is important and hand that off to their deputies and police officers in a format that can be easily acted upon in the field.

On our side of the car, it is important, at least in my mind to present yourself in such a way that is non threatening to the officer, is understanding of his/her job and it's difficulties and really doesn't make your traffic stop any more difficult than it should be. If anything you should be that model citizen that makes that traffic stop a breeze for the officer. In a lot of instances I have witnessed, officers were so taken aback by people actually being courteous that they got a slap on the wrist and sent along on their way.

That's my opinion at least. Take it as you wish.

Very good post, Myers--I think you summed things up very nicely. While the police officer on the street is not a lawyer, there are certain situations and breaches of law that the cops should know, and most of them do. If they find a white substance in a plastic package in a subject's pocket, the officer's inclination is to arrest, since that's the way drugs are packaged. Should it turn out to be BC powder, the lawyers can figure out what to do, but the officer acted in good faith, based on his training and experience.

Should an officer know all the nuances of firearms law? No, but there aren't many nuances about what is legal and what is illegal, and the officer should know the difference.

*In Mississippi, any law abiding resident of any state can carry a loaded handgun concealed in a car.

*Mississippi does issue shall carry permits to qualified residents. If the officer has run your DL through the system, he'll know you have a permit.

*Mississippi has CCW reciprocity with approximately 23 states, and while the officer might not know all those states, he should be able to get the information fairly easily by a call to a supervisor. Me, I think I'd carry something in my car which references such reciprocity, just in case.

*A convicted felon shouldn't have ANY firearm in his/her possession. Period. That's Federal law AND state law.

*If the officer has any questions about the legality of any particular firearm, he should know how to find out, and quickly. While there are some nuances regarding NFA weapons, for instance, a photocopy of the gun owner's tax stamp should travel with the owner whenever the gun is with him. If the officer doesn't believe your story, you might be detained, but detention and arrest are not the same thing, and the officer should know the difference.

LEO- LAW Enforcement Officer. LAW LAW LAW Enforcement Officer

I understand that mistakes will happen and the majority of Mississippi's finest are good guy who have no intention of abusing their power. However, there is absolutely no excuse for an officer not to have an understanding of our state's basic gun law. I don't care if they've been in uniform for one day or thirty years. There are laws that all of our officers would know and understand.

I don't know about ya'll but I've got no sense of humor about this crap. If an officer makes a mistake regarding a traffic violation that's one thing but mistakes regarding a man's right to self preservation shouldn't be tolerated.

I wouldn't find anything humorous about being handcuffed and hauled downtown for breaking a law that I was obeying.

Just for quick reference http://www.mscode.com/free/statutes/toc.htm

This one deals with concealed carry permits
http://www.mscode.com/free/statutes/45/009/0101.htm

This deals with carrying concealed deadly weapons
http://www.mscode.com/free/statutes/97/037/0001.htm

Just FYI: cops do not know all the law. Sometimes, while they know the law, they don't care. Case in point: I will show you a thread on ar15.com that happened to me on July 4, 2010, in Madison. It's a long read, but this happens to lots of people, yes, even an attorney.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1061618

check it out. let me know what ya'll think.

I guess I should have an attorney on speed dial. Any suggestions?

2ALawyer wrote:Just FYI: cops do not know all the law. Sometimes, while they know the law, they don't care. Case in point: I will show you a thread on ar15.com that happened to me on July 4, 2010, in Madison. It's a long read, but this happens to lots of people, yes, even an attorney.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1061618

check it out. let me know what ya'll think.

I didn't read all 13 pages, but looks like the deputies were not too bright. I have a question though. Why did you inform them you were carrying? We're not required to, as I'm sure you know.